KAP140

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TJS
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KAP140

Post by TJS »

As I am shopping for a DA42, I see many available with the KAP140. I have flown with the GFC700 in my DA40 for over 300hrs and wonder what differences I would notice. I have only heard how much better the GFC700 is(it is an awesome setup) but have never heard any complaints about the KAP140. I would be interested in hearing from those who have experienced both. Good and bad
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Re: KAP140

Post by pietromarx »

I've had planes with both (currently have a GFC700). Beyond some of the minor things (duplicate entry for baro and using a different interface for the G1000 and KAP-140 to set the AP mode), you and your passengers will likely notice very little difference. As I recall (and to be corrected by others), the KAP-140 won't fly a hold and can't do some of the smoother G1000-driven maneuvers, but these are kind of edge cases. When was the last time you did a hold other than for proficiency?
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Keith M
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Re: KAP140

Post by Keith M »

Here's a couple of disadvantages of the KAP140 which you need to be aware of:
  1. It will fly you into a stall if you set a rate of climb for which there is not enough power to sustain as you climb higher.
  2. It will not fly the procedure turn of an instrument approach.
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robert63
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Re: KAP140

Post by robert63 »

The KAP140 has no Yaw damper.
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ememic99
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Re: KAP140

Post by ememic99 »

It's more likely that you'll have WAAS if you have GFC700. AFAIK there are very few GFC700 installed in non-WAAS DA42 and very few KAP140 upgraded to WAAS. GFC700 has stronger servos that are less likely to fail. DA42 with KAP140 will probably be less expensive but not only because of autopilot - it's more likely it will be older and with more flight hours and it will probably have CD-135 instead of AE300 engines.
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Re: KAP140

Post by CFIDave »

Technically, here is how the KAP-140 differs from the GFC700:

With a KAP-140, there's a spinning mechanical rate-based turn coordinator (electrical gyroscope) located behind the G1000's PFD to provide information to the autopilot. (You can't read anything from this turn coordinator because it's hidden.) The autopilot sends corrective information to the flight control servos based on the aircraft's rate of turn.

In contrast, the GFC700 makes use of the G1000's built-in solid-state AHARS to more-precisely determine the plane's attitude and position. Diamonds with the GFC700 don't need a hidden turn coordinator gyro located behind the panel. The G1000 sends course deflection and bank angle information instead of turn rate to the autopilot.

The result is that the GFC700 can more accurately track headings, courses, and altitudes than the KAP140. However, the KAP140 is more than serviceable as an autopilot; IMHO it still gets the job done.

Other differences:
- the GFC700 displays a flight director on the PFD; the KAP-140 has no flight director.
- with the GFC700, setting the G1000's altitude bug presets the target altitude for climbs or descents. With the KAP140, setting the altitude bug does nothing but help the pilot remember the desired altitude; the pilot must separately enter and arm the desired altitude on the KAP140 to get the plane to level off at a particular altitude
- barometric pressure must be entered 2x on a GFC700 aircraft: into the G1000 and into the backup steam gauge altimeter. On the KAP140 barometric pressure must be entered 3x, to also include entry into the KAP140.
- for the DA42 (but not DA40), the GFC700 has a yaw damper; the KAP-140 lacks a yaw damper.
- the GFC700 includes a Flight Level Change (FLC) function that lets the aircraft climb or descend at a preset indicated airspeed, decreasing the potential for a stall during climb. In contrast, the KAP-140 can only climb or descend at a preset fixed vertical speed (e.g., 500 fpm).
Last edited by CFIDave on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KAP140

Post by ememic99 »

CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:31 pm With the KAP140, setting the altitude bug does nothing but help the pilot remember the desired altitude;
Actually it does - it provides ATC with info on altitude set on G1000 via Mode-S response.
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Re: KAP140

Post by CFIDave »

ememic99 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:37 pm
CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:31 pm With the KAP140, setting the altitude bug does nothing but help the pilot remember the desired altitude;
Actually it does - it provides ATC with info on altitude set on G1000 via Mode-S response.
Are you saying the data block on controller screens displays the setting of the plane's G1000 altitude bug? I find that hard to believe given that different pilots set the altitude bug differently, for example setting the bug to the missed approach initial climb altitude vs. setting a low enough altitude to get VNAV to work properly on a coupled GFC700 approach. This would be terribly confusing to a controller. Furthermore, most planes historically have had only Mode C rather than Mode S transponders, so I doubt controllers would see Mode S altitude bug information (just as Mode S tail numbers aren't displayed on their screens).
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Chris
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Re: KAP140

Post by Chris »

CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:57 pm
ememic99 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:37 pm Actually it does - it provides ATC with info on altitude set on G1000 via Mode-S response.
Are you saying the data block on controller screens displays the setting of the plane's G1000 altitude bug? I find that hard to believe given that different pilots set the altitude bug differently, for example setting the bug to the missed approach initial climb altitude vs. setting a low enough altitude to get VNAV to work properly on a coupled GFC700 approach. This would be terribly confusing to a controller. Furthermore, most planes historically have had only Mode C rather than Mode S transponders, so I doubt controllers would see Mode S altitude bug information (just as Mode S tail numbers aren't displayed on their screens).
It seems strange to me as well. I hadn't heard of this capability before, but I found a reference to Mode S Enhanced Surveillance mode that describes this feature. If the G1000 provides all of this data to ATC though the transponder, it's news to me.
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Re: KAP140

Post by dgger »

CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:57 pm
ememic99 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:37 pm
CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:31 pm With the KAP140, setting the altitude bug does nothing but help the pilot remember the desired altitude;
Actually it does - it provides ATC with info on altitude set on G1000 via Mode-S response.
Are you saying the data block on controller screens displays the setting of the plane's G1000 altitude bug? I find that hard to believe [...]
It definitely displays on ATC screen in Germany (and the UK, IIRC). I have gone back and forth between the GFC700 and the KAP in different aircraft and forgotten to adjust the altitude bug in the KAP140 aircraft. ATC has reminded me more than once to preselect my altitude in a climb.
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