Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Any DA42 related topics.

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Karl
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Karl »

Davestation wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:21 am
Karl wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:30 am This is the factory estimated hours for maintenance on TAE/Centurion/Continental engined aircraft.

It is only the inspection and does not include replacement of anything other than oils and filters.

It is a few years old and may not be entirely accurate today but should give some guidance on how many hours you should be being charged.
I always billed in that ballpark including the obvious replacements. Seemed silly to charge a certain number of hours for a Twinstar annual and then extra for replacing ECU batteries when they're always part of a standard annual. I suppose that's a common sales trick though - quote low to get them in and then slap them with a bunch of mandatory overages.
IIRC back up batteries were not part of the origional design. They came about as the result of someone starting a DA42 on external power and then taking off with a flat main battery. When they retracted the gear it momentarily took away power to the FADEC causing it to recycle. Both engines stopped as the gear was coming up, that is why the flight manual tells you to seek engineering assistance if the main battery is flat. Unfortunately, not all engineers understand that you should charge the main battery and not just start on external power. Also back up battery requirements vary by country. For instance an N reg DA42 has twice the number of ECU batteries than the factory standard fit.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by CFIDave »

Karl wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:58 amAlso back up battery requirements vary by country. For instance an N reg DA42 has twice the number of ECU batteries than the factory standard fit.
Your story about why backup ECU batteries were added later (not part of the original design) is true.

But there are now 4 backup ECU batteries in all DA42 and DA62 aircraft regardless of country: Two 12 volt Panasonic batteries per ECU, with each pair connected in series in order to generate 24 volts.
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Karl
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Karl »

CFIDave wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:52 am
Karl wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:58 amAlso back up battery requirements vary by country. For instance an N reg DA42 has twice the number of ECU batteries than the factory standard fit.
Your story about why backup ECU batteries were added later (not part of the original design) is true.

But there are now 4 backup ECU batteries in all DA42 and DA62 aircraft regardless of country: Two 12 volt Panasonic batteries per ECU, with each pair connected in series in order to generate 24 volts.
Thanks for your comments Dave.
A couple of years ago I helped transfer a DA42 from the Malaysian register to the N reg and that required a modification to increase the number of batteries before the AI would sign it off. I can only assume that would be the same for the other 5 we still have here. That was the basis of my comments.
EDIT, maybe its not the number of batteries that changes but the size. Amperage.
EDIT again. Our aircraft have MSB 42-042 complied with. To meet the requirements for the N reg they require OSB 42-050. Bigger batteries under the rear seat.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Davestation »

I don’t remember the batteries ever being a different size, they just had two that went to both engines, and then decided to add two more to make them independent, so I thought. But I digress, the original point I was trying to make is that if you know for a fact the plane is going to need the batteries replaced it’s disingenuous to quote the annual without that.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Karl »

Davestation wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:44 pm I don’t remember the batteries ever being a different size, they just had two that went to both engines, and then decided to add two more to make them independent, so I thought. But I digress, the original point I was trying to make is that if you know for a fact the plane is going to need the batteries replaced it’s disingenuous to quote the annual without that.
I agree that your engineering company should quote for all the work.

I was just pointing out that the information I provided about Diamond estimates was not recent and may have been before the batteries were fitted. Therefore the battery replacement may not be included.
The batteries for N reg requirements are bigger and more difficult to access requiring the rear seat to be removed so may be charged at a higher rate than the earlier/alternate battery fit.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by CFIDave »

CFIDave wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:52 amBut there are now 4 backup ECU batteries in all DA42 and DA62 aircraft regardless of country: Two 12 volt Panasonic batteries per ECU, with each pair connected in series in order to generate 24 volts.
Oops, I meant to say "Two 12 volt Panasonic batteries per engine" X 2 for a DA42 or DA62 with 2 engines. Each engine has 2 ECUs.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by SavageB »

My first annual 2018 DA42 was $4,478. labor $2700 (30 hours at $90), customs fees $120 (because no parts stocked in US) 100 kit $1,314, filter element gearbox $344. But.... this shop is not taking anymore new customers here in the DFW area.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by neema »

Not sure I should chalk this up to being taken advantage of, but our current annual is becoming the motherlode of annuals

Big picture: I fly a 4 year old DA42-VI, 1200 hours on engines and airframe. Typical owner/operator profile with cross country legs (i.e. this is not a trainer aircraft).

This annual includes:
-fuel injector AD compliance - $6100, 6 hours labor and discounted injectors; henceforth a 900 hour item
-dual mass flywheel inspection: this one is sneaky, it's $2200 for the inspection, but shop charges an additional $1800 for remove/replacement of props ($600) and dynamic balancing them when back on ($1200)
-1000 hour items - $4700
-600 hour pressure pumps - $6200

The estimate alone is over $30,000. Both dual mass flywheels came back bad, so we're 2-4 weeks out for shipping on new ones at ~$3350 each. Both failed at 600 hours--prices then were $1850 each.

I'm located in California and wonder if this is a regional anomaly. I'd happily fly the plane across the country to have work done for reasonable rates. Maintenance has tainted our ownership quite a bit--to the point of wanting to sell the plane. I maintain a pressurized turboprop for less than this each year.

The cost savings in fuel is negated by maintenance. Almost incentivizes flying at firewall power all the time to get more miles between maintenance intervals. Such a shame because it's one of the most enjoyable planes to fly.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Davestation »

neema wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:50 am This annual includes:
-fuel injector AD compliance - $6100, 6 hours labor and discounted injectors; henceforth a 900 hour item
-dual mass flywheel inspection: this one is sneaky, it's $2200 for the inspection, but shop charges an additional $1800 for remove/replacement of props ($600) and dynamic balancing them when back on ($1200)
-1000 hour items - $4700
-600 hour pressure pumps - $6200

The estimate alone is over $30,000. Both dual mass flywheels came back bad, so we're 2-4 weeks out for shipping on new ones at ~$3350 each. Both failed at 600 hours--prices then were $1850 each.
I think dynamic balancing these props is crazy. They’re obviously statically balanced, and they are run on a gear reduction system such that not only are they not turning on the same impulses as the engine but they aren’t even in line with the engine or directly connected to it.

What 1000 hour items are they doing? The bonding and static checks? That’s like a four hour job.

They stopped selling inspected flywheels because of the high fail rate, so you may just be seeing the difference in price between new and used there.
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Re: Diamond Owners Being Taken Advantage Of - Maintenance

Post by Colin »

Neema,

I was just going to ask you about your shop and if you were satisfied with them. I'm going to take that off my todo list. That's a drag, even though I know some of it is out of their control.

There's a shop in Colorado who I am sure would have done a lot of that work for less. Email me if you want the info.

Isn't your operation flying a DA62 as well? How is it comparing to the SETP?
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