AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Any DA42 related topics.

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neema
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by neema »

Great, so Austros can join the overheating party! Current engines will dip coolant temps into yellow arc on a 40C+ day, especially if engines are warm/second run.

A bigger oil cooler should pull some stress off the coolant system.

Reminds of a turboprop. Temp limited climbs are an every-day affair.
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by neema »

CFIDave wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:03 pm The radiator on the DA62 E4P-C engine is identical to that of the DA42-VI E4-C engine.

The only real difference I can see between the 2 engines (I've owned both) is that my 2013 DA42-VI had an air-cooled gearbox (with an attached air duct and external cooling fins), whereas my 2017 DA62 engines have liquid-cooled gearboxes plumbed into the same system that cools the diesel engines. I believe this running change was made to *ALL* Austro engines, not just those of the DA62.
Dave you are a wealth of information. Interesting
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by CFIDave »

neema wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:09 pm Great, so Austros can join the overheating party! Current engines will dip coolant temps into yellow arc on a 40C+ day, especially if engines are warm/second run.
I've flown dozens of Austro-engined Diamond aircraft (including my own) and NEVER had a cooling issue. This is one of the huge benefits of Austro engines compared to operating my Lycoming DA40 -- where I was always adjusting mixture and climb airspeeds to keep the engine CHTs below 400 degF.

The cooling issue reported earlier was for Thielert/Continental 2.0S (CD-155) engines.
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by ememic99 »

Oxymoron wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:43 am As a parallel example, the Thielert 2.0S are same engine as Thielert 2.0 but with different engine mapping to increase max power by about 15%. But even with an upgraded cooling system, the 2.0S can't climb at 100% in ambient temps over about 30C without overheating.
In 250 hours operating CD-155 engines and two hot summers behind me, I didn’t notice any cooling problem climbing at 100%.
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by Oxymoron »

Interesting then that they built the E4-C engine with excessive cooling capacity. Oversize radiators, ducts and cowlings all add to drag and weight penalties.
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neema
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by neema »

Don't worry, it's not oversized and still gets into the yellow in hot, hot temps.

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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by Davestation »

I feel you, the biggest hurdle by far is the red tape. Switch over to experimental and you could probably just bootleg the the AE330 software onto the AE300 and be good to go.
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by Antoine »

neema wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:53 pm Antoine, I live vicariously through your EA400 adventure. It looks like an awesome machine (please keep posting cool content!). Regarding the lighter engines--yes, the Austro is an anvil for the power produced, but there are already hundreds of DA42NG and 42VIs out there. If it were an affordable STC (software, larger oil cooler) with a days worth of work, I'm sure many would go that route.

To the comment on having balanced power--I disagree. I think more power is always nice. Nice for peace of mind, nice for climb performance to get to higher TAS, nice for OEI performance. Let's not forget it's also fun.

Emir, it's probably too much work to reprogram prop RPM tables in the ECUs, so no doubt there may be some inefficiency. We all still have the choice to dial power back to lower power and higher prop blade pitch if that's our choice.

Just seems an easy-ish STC to make.
Lol right now my Extra400 has been sitting for 5 weeks - UPS lost the prop governor we sent for OH...
And back to the topic: of course it would be great to have "free" extra power Neema.
Only way I can see this happening is by "paperwork engineering" with an AFM limitation to take-off power so as to avoid changing Vmc

Cloning the ECU mapping from the 62, despite the 42's smaller prop may indeed cause issues I am not capable of commenting upon.
And I would be amazed if it were only a days's worth of work. Maybe a week with all the mechanical and cowling mods?
This said... how could I argue with the "fun" factor of a 200 knot DA42? 8)
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by CFIDave »

Antoine wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:01 pmThis said... how could I argue with the "fun" factor of a 200 knot DA42? 8)
Not sure that running DA62 software in DA42 engines would result in 200 knots TAS.

To reach 200 knots TAS in a Diamond twin you would have to fly high (i.e., at least 14 - 16,000 feet to reduce parasitic drag). But once you get above 12,000 feet both AE330 (E4P-C) and AE300 (E4C) are limited to roughly the same maximum horsepower because the same turbo on both engines reaches its same "critical altitude" where it can't supply any more boost. There's only so much that different AE330 vs. AE300 software can do about this. Thus the slightly higher horsepower of DA62 AE330 engines only applies at lower altitudes.

Both the DA62 and DA42-VI have the same engine nacelles and radiator-related cooling drag. The DA62 has a greater frontal area due to its wider fuselage and slightly greater wingspan. But the DA42 unfortunately suffers from greater form drag due to excessive fuselage taper -- the airflow separates from the rear fuselage at higher airspeeds because it can't follow the curved shape. The DA20/DA40/DA42 skinny tapered fuselages were originally designed to reduce "wetted area" -- important for reducing the drag of slower sailplanes and motorgliders, but a disadvantage at the higher airspeeds of a DA42-VI. The less-tapered rear DA62 fuselage (similar in shape to a Cirrus fuselage) doesn't have this issue and is less "draggy" at higher airspeeds.
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Re: AE330 180hp DA42 STC

Post by Antoine »

CFIDave wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:31 pm But the DA42 unfortunately suffers from greater form drag due to excessive fuselage taper -- the airflow separates from the rear fuselage at higher airspeeds because it can't follow the curved shape. The DA20/DA40/DA42 skinny tapered fuselages were originally designed to reduce "wetted area" -- important for reducing the drag of slower sailplanes and motorgliders, but a disadvantage at the higher airspeeds of a DA42-VI. The less-tapered rear DA62 fuselage (similar in shape to a Cirrus fuselage) doesn't have this issue and is less "draggy" at higher airspeeds.
Very interesting reasoning! I have always wondered if DAI knew something other aerodynamicists didn't.
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