G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
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- ememic99
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G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
Since there are some issues with DA42TDI upgrades, in coordination with others from DAN 6, I'm opening separate thread for DA42 in order to avoid adding unnecessary noise to upgrade thread related to DA62 and DA40 which are pretty much straight forward.
To make long story short, few of us applied to upgrade program (WAAS upgrade of DA42TDI) listed in DAI letter and got confusing answers both from DAI Canada and DAI Austria. Several technical and legal issues present the obstacles for described upgrade: differences between -01 and -20 versions of GIA63W and issue whether both are supported, STC ownership and price for Europe, HIRF boxes mandatory or not. Practically, the upgrade is not available in the form and pricing specified in the letter and alternative solution and timeline have to be offered.
If you have any doubts, questions and information related to this specific topic, please post it here rather than in the main thread related to upgrade program located in Hangar Talk forum.
To make long story short, few of us applied to upgrade program (WAAS upgrade of DA42TDI) listed in DAI letter and got confusing answers both from DAI Canada and DAI Austria. Several technical and legal issues present the obstacles for described upgrade: differences between -01 and -20 versions of GIA63W and issue whether both are supported, STC ownership and price for Europe, HIRF boxes mandatory or not. Practically, the upgrade is not available in the form and pricing specified in the letter and alternative solution and timeline have to be offered.
If you have any doubts, questions and information related to this specific topic, please post it here rather than in the main thread related to upgrade program located in Hangar Talk forum.
- Charles K
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
From reading a few other posts and finding the attached I think perhaps the certification for the DA42TDI needs the upgraded capacitors in the power supply backup circuit. I've been unable to determine any other differences thus far.
Charles
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
- TwinStarScott
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
Yesterday we heard from Diamond that they are working to close the unexpected certification gaps in the DA42-TDI WAAS upgrade solution. Resolving this issue involves collaboration among Diamond-Canada, Diamond-Austria, and Garmin. Fortunately, this does not affect DA40 WAAS upgrades, which are being successfully scheduled. The issue is limited to ONLY the DA42-TDI.
- NickBudd
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
Scott, do you know of anyone who has installed a GIA63W on a DA42 using the Form 337 route?
- TwinStarScott
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
Unfortunately, I do not Nick. My understanding is that since 9/11 getting a 337 form approved at most FSDO's is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to obtain.
- Charles K
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
I think the 337 depends on what it is for - I think some are reasonably easy like when I swapped out the old halogen lights for XEVision HID 50W lights.
I would imagine the 337 route for the core nav/com/gps units might be near impossible.
I would imagine the 337 route for the core nav/com/gps units might be near impossible.
Charles
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
- NickBudd
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
I recently purchased two 63Ws from Wentworth Aircraft Inc in Minnesota (tel 763 231 8482). The manager, Kevin, was very helpful. The boxes are the -01 version and were salvaged from a 2009 Cirrus that was destroyed when the hangar collapsed in a tornado. The cost was $5000 each. No paperwork but they come with a 30 day return period if they don't test out. Garmin charges $2000/box to certify and repair or replace as necessary. I am having the certification done by an avionics shop in Germany for much less, but of course there will be no warranty. So I would say the the Diamond offer of $6,500 per box including warranty and antennas sounds good.
Although I have the boxes I am still unclear how this is supposed to work from a regulatory standpoint. The GIA63W is on the Type Certificate for the DA40, DA42 NG and -VI, DA42 360, and there is a Service Bulletin for the DA42 Tdi fitted with GFC 700 autopilot, but the straight 42 Tdi with KAP140 is an orphan as far as the GIA63W is concerned. It is the same story, by the way, with the GTX33 and GTX33ES, which is a much cheaper solution for ADS-B. We checked with the FAA in 2016 (when there were still some new GIA63Ws available) and were turned down flat because they said there was no point wasting time on approval of a modification for an accessory that was no longer being manufactured. Nothing has changed in this department. The September 8 letter states that the "approved data" needed for the Form 337, is an EASA STC, which works for EASA-reg aircraft but not for N-reg, as far as I know. One strategy would be approaching this as a "minor" modification requiring no Form 337 and only "acceptable data," for which the EASA STC might qualify, but this seems a somewhat adventurous approach to be publicly backed by Diamond without an STC, although individuals might elect to pursue it if they can find a willing IA or DER. In the footnote in the Sept 8 letter is sounds as though an STC or some other way forward may be in the works, and in the meantime installations of non-certified equipment will be countenanced so long as the panel is placarded. My German friend, who acquainted me with Wentworth, tells me the GIA63W in his (D-reg) DA42 works perfectly!
If anyone goes forward with the installation I would be interested to know how this is treated by the Service Center in your service log entries.
Although I have the boxes I am still unclear how this is supposed to work from a regulatory standpoint. The GIA63W is on the Type Certificate for the DA40, DA42 NG and -VI, DA42 360, and there is a Service Bulletin for the DA42 Tdi fitted with GFC 700 autopilot, but the straight 42 Tdi with KAP140 is an orphan as far as the GIA63W is concerned. It is the same story, by the way, with the GTX33 and GTX33ES, which is a much cheaper solution for ADS-B. We checked with the FAA in 2016 (when there were still some new GIA63Ws available) and were turned down flat because they said there was no point wasting time on approval of a modification for an accessory that was no longer being manufactured. Nothing has changed in this department. The September 8 letter states that the "approved data" needed for the Form 337, is an EASA STC, which works for EASA-reg aircraft but not for N-reg, as far as I know. One strategy would be approaching this as a "minor" modification requiring no Form 337 and only "acceptable data," for which the EASA STC might qualify, but this seems a somewhat adventurous approach to be publicly backed by Diamond without an STC, although individuals might elect to pursue it if they can find a willing IA or DER. In the footnote in the Sept 8 letter is sounds as though an STC or some other way forward may be in the works, and in the meantime installations of non-certified equipment will be countenanced so long as the panel is placarded. My German friend, who acquainted me with Wentworth, tells me the GIA63W in his (D-reg) DA42 works perfectly!
If anyone goes forward with the installation I would be interested to know how this is treated by the Service Center in your service log entries.
- ememic99
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
DA42TDI with KAP140 can be upgraded to WAAS with GIA63W (-01) with Urbe Aero STC (10.000€ for paperwork solely) and I believe it’s valid for EASA-reg aircrafts only. DAI promised us STC which will cover both EASA and FAA and will include -01 and -20 versions (extracted during NXi phase I to phase II upgrade). When this will happen I still don’t know.
- salim
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
Hello NickBudd,
Out of curiosity you mention :
On my side I went the expensive way : bought two overhauled GIA63W overhauled by Garmin, and had them installed by Diamond via the Urbe STC.
I will let you know how it works once I get to fly the plane
Best
Salim
Out of curiosity you mention :
Where is this Service Bulletin ? I've never heard of it.there is a Service Bulletin for the DA42 Tdi fitted with GFC 700 autopilot
On my side I went the expensive way : bought two overhauled GIA63W overhauled by Garmin, and had them installed by Diamond via the Urbe STC.
I will let you know how it works once I get to fly the plane
Best
Salim
- ememic99
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Re: G1000 Legacy upgrade program for DA42TDI
This is reply I got from DAI today:
Diamond Austria, who is the TC holder, is working on creating the approved data to facilitate the installation on WAAS. The current schedule is for Q1 2021 approval. WAAS installation on DA42 NG, with GFC 700, is a non issue. The issue is only with the DA42 TDI, and some older DA42NG with KAP140.
Diamond Austria, who is the TC holder, is working on creating the approved data to facilitate the installation on WAAS. The current schedule is for Q1 2021 approval. WAAS installation on DA42 NG, with GFC 700, is a non issue. The issue is only with the DA42 TDI, and some older DA42NG with KAP140.