DA50 vs The World

[TimS]

Cirrus gear is not "bouncy", it is on the stiff side.
Diamond and Cessna gear are more forgiving of poor airmanship.

Having watched way too many Cessna pilots land with all three wheels or occasionally the front wheel first; you can see how with low wing planes with much greater ground effect can run into problems. You land a low wing plane with all three wheels in a flat view, the plane is often still "flyable" in ground effect, suddenly you will bounce the plane, often the nose will rise faster and change the AOA to climb. Leave ground effect, and watch the plane start to come down, and the pilot tries to correct pushing the nose down, and wham, the prop strikes.

This is not a "Cirrus" specific issue. When you dig into the history, you will see it on a number of planes, Cirrus, Bonanza, and Columbia/TTx for example. Although not required, a good pilot (my opinion) would get some transition training in any new to them aircraft type.

Tim

[dmloftus]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/372326

Very sad. Unfortunate those guys talking in the video didn't render immediate help rather than standing there yelling "WTF"

[mfdutra]

I think it's pretty common for people to freeze when they witness something like that. The sudden realization that someone just died right in front of you isn't easy to process.

[photoSteveZ]

Cirrus gear is not "bouncy", it is on the stiff side.
Diamond and Cessna gear are more forgiving of poor airmanship.

Having watched way too many Cessna pilots land with all three wheels or occasionally the front wheel first; you can see how with low wing planes with much greater ground effect can run into problems. You land a low wing plane with all three wheels in a flat view, the plane is often still "flyable" in ground effect, suddenly you will bounce the plane, often the nose will rise faster and change the AOA to climb. Leave ground effect, and watch the plane start to come down, and the pilot tries to correct pushing the nose down, and wham, the prop strikes.

This is not a "Cirrus" specific issue. When you dig into the history, you will see it on a number of planes, Cirrus, Bonanza, and Columbia/TTx for example. Although not required, a good pilot (my opinion) would get some transition training in any new to them aircraft type.

Tim

A ‘bounced’ landing in tricycle gear aircraft is often nosewheel first, which by definition means the airspeed is high enough that the sudden pitch up sends the aircraft flying again. Unless the pilot is trained to recognize what’s happening and initiate a go around immediately, such a ‘wheelbarrow landing’ will result in a pilot induced oscillation, with the pilot out of phase and overcorrecting. Each subsequent bounce is more violent, with the nose lower at touchdown and the pitch up more pronounced. After two or three of these oscillations, the pilot may try to initiate a go around with the nose very high, which is what I suspect happened in the Duxford fatality.

If you’ve ever witnessed a ‘wheelbarrow’ landing and subsequent PIO, as I have, you never forget it.

[AV8ag]

Why? This airplane would be much more appealing with a parachute option.

This is a super complicated topic. It is very debated on both sides. I have no data. Which means I don't have a valid opinion.

But given that this is the internet and people blab:

I THINK (but dont know) that the parachute is largely a marketing thing that gives people the illusion of safety and helps you convince a skeptical spouse. I THINK (but dont know) that the parachute fuels bad ADM as a makes people think that it is safe to do x,y,z because a parachute will save them. I THINK (but dont know) that many/some of the situations you might pull the parachute in a Cirrus you would actually be better off flying your way out of.

The data was clear that the Cirrus was less safe.... but that gap has been closed? somewhat closed? by Cirrus aggressively training people to use the CAPS.

The bottom line is that I am an engineer and I believe in data. So everything I said was without data.

To me an airplane that doesnt want to kill you (the DA40NG for sure!) is better than an airplane that wants to kill you but has a parachute.

First of all, thank you for saying you want the data. That's refreshing in this age...By any measure, Cirrus has the best safety record in GA. Sometimes it's accident rate is half. The increase in safety is not all or even mostly chute related. The Garmin avionics and the investments Cirrus made in standardized training are mainly to be credited.

Cirrus found a few years ago that a large number of their accidents involved people that had never received standardized training. That's why they invented the Cirrus Embark program. If you buy a USED Cirrus you get FREE TRAINING. They claim to have lost a lot of money on the program, but are happy to do it.

If you are serious about data here is some.

Courtesy of AVWEB

I also have a graph that includes diamonds but I cant figure out how to add it.

[dant]

Coincidentally I believe the Cirrus Embark program started in late 2017.