Purchasing advice and Maintenance worries

[MTBguy]

I’m an airline pilot who has been thinking seriously about getting back into GA. I am very interested in the DA-40NG because of the high-density altitude here in SLC. I did all my initial training in Diamonds (DA-40 and 42) and really don’t think any small GA plane compares when it comes to ease of flying, visibility, and overall enjoyment.

Any higher-time pilots out there who can give me some ballpark numbers on what I can expect to insure one? I have 7,500 hours, probably 700–800 in Diamonds, I’m a Gold Seal CFII, but I have been away from GA for ten years.

I have one more big concern: the maintenance required on a more complex engine and Diamond’s very limited service network. Utah doesn’t seem to have any sort of service at all; I believe the closest Diamond-trained mechanics to me would be in Vegas. I just don’t want to be stranded or stuck with a huge bill when maintenance issues come up. If the plane were to be grounded in SLC, would I have to fly a qualified mechanic in, or is it possible for a normal A&P mechanic to fix them?

Finally, if anyone here lives in the SLC area and would be interested in a partnership or the DiamondShare program, I’d love to hear from you.

[Boatguy]

I have one more big concern: the maintenance required on a more complex engine and Diamond’s very limited service network. Utah doesn’t seem to have any sort of service at all; I believe the closest Diamond-trained mechanics to me would be in Vegas. I just don’t want to be stranded or stuck with a huge bill when maintenance issues come up. If the plane were to be grounded in SLC, would I have to fly a qualified mechanic in, or is it possible for a normal A&P mechanic to fix them?

As you probably know, the Austro engines are derived from a Mercedes car engine. Most failures which leave you AOG will be flagged in the Engine Control Unit (ECU). The first step will be to download the engine logs into the Austro Wizard software for fault diagnosis. This requires a computer running that software, and an Austro specific dongle to connect the computer to the CAN bus connector in the cockpit. The dongle can be purchased from a Diamond service center ($800 - $1,000, or sometimes available in the For Sale forum), and the software can be downloaded from the Diamond website.

As a result, most of the time you would have to bring a mechanic to the plane. A mechanic not trained on Austro engines should not be attempting to make repairs and would be unable to obtain parts. That said, if the problem were with an "accessory", like a poor wiring connection to the starter, failed alternator, flat tire, etc. you could probably receive assistance locally.

Some pilots also ignore some failures and fly on to a service center. A pilot with whom I shared my 40NG had a failure in the turbocharger that did not seem to affect performance and flew another 200 miles. Alternatively, my DA62 had a boost pressure sensor failure and was AOG 300 miles from home. I diagnosed the problem on the spot, but it was two weeks before the mechanic could obtain the parts, come to the plane and make the repair. I came home in a rental car and a friend flew me back to get the plane later.

I also know a professional pilot (B777, B787, etc.) with a DA62 who was also an A&P/IA, took the Austro training from Diamond and did all his own work.

I strongly recommend that anyone flying an Austro engined airplane have the dongle and a laptop with the software onboard whenever flying away from their home airport. This enables the owner to download the engine logs and obtain more information about the failure and potentially clear an "unlatched" error and resume their trip. For more serious failures, the logs can be sent to the service center so that the mechanic coming to the plane will have the parts necessary to make the repairs when they come to the plane. Without the engine logs, the mechanic is almost guaranteed to have to make two trips, one to download the logs and diagnose the failure, and the second to return with the necessary parts and make the repair.

There are a number of threads in these forums that reference the dongle and usage of the Austro Wizard software.

Parts availability can also be an issue. Most parts will have to be shipped from Canada to a service center, some parts will need to be shipped from Austria to Canada, and then to the service center. You will not be communicating directly with Diamond/Austro so the bottom line is that you should develop a good relationship with at least one, if not two service centers.

[krellis]

Still cannot comprehend why anyone would buy an Austro-powered Diamond and especially a DA40NG right now - given the poor reliability of these engines. Additionally, there is at least one AD without a current terminating action.

If Diamond's track record as to support, service, parts availability and avionics upgrades was stellar - one might have a decent argument for purchase. But they don't...

[MTBguy]

Thank you both for your quick and informative responses. That helps a ton. Are the early Austros any better? I think I’ll steer clear of the Austros until Diamond can get their act together. It’s a shame because with good product support and parts availability, it would be a phenomenal product.

[Boatguy]

Prior to roughly 2020-21, Austro purchased engines from Mercedes. You can clearly read "Mercedes" on the heads of those engines. The Mercedes engines have had dramatically fewer issues. The steady stream of ADs began when Austro transitioned from "engine assembler to engine manufacturer".

The only caveat on the planes with the Mercedes engines is that in early 2022 Austro ceased to offer an overhaul, all engines are TBR at 1,800hrs. So an older plane with a high time Mercedes engine will eventually replace the Mercedes engine with an Austro built "core" engine. The new engine core was $50K in 2022, plus shipping from Austria and local labor to install and probably to transfer "accessories" not included with the core.

I completely agree that Austro's incompetence as an engine builder coupled with their poor support policies and communication is tragic; Diamond's are wonderful airplanes to fly. The phrase "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" comes to mind.

[krellis]

Thank you both for your quick and informative responses. That helps a ton. Are the early Austros any better? I think I’ll steer clear of the Austros until Diamond can get their act together. It’s a shame because with good product support and parts availability, it would be a phenomenal product.

The DA40-180 is a phenomenal airplane (I've owned two). I do agree that the performance at high DA's might be an issue for you given your location. The turbocharged Austro provides much better performance at higher altitudes - but the reliability of the Austro doesn't come close to the IO-360-M1 series of engines. The lower stall speed and nicer control harmony of the -180 versus the NG is another benefit. I don't know your mission, so the -180 might not work well for you - but they are wonderful planes. Diamond support has been hit or miss over the years and I don't think the current Diamond ownership (Chinese) is particularly concerned about individual plane owners.

[blsewardjr]

Also, there is an STC for a supercharger on the DA40-180 which should help with high density altitudes. See
viewtopic.php?t=3451&start=320 and
viewtopic.php?t=6989
However, not everyone has been satisfied with it. See
viewtopic.php?p=79939&hilit=supercharger#p79939

[Boatguy]

I don't think the current Diamond ownership (Chinese) is particularly concerned about individual plane owners.

I don’t think the fact they are Chinese is relevant. Cirrus and Continental are both subsidiaries of a corporation owned entirely by the Chinese government while Wanfeng is a publicly traded corporation. So all three are owned by Chinese corporations, but the way they treat customers is entirely different.

[krellis]

I don't think the current Diamond ownership (Chinese) is particularly concerned about individual plane owners.

I don’t think the fact they are Chinese is relevant. Cirrus and Continental are both subsidiaries of a corporation owned entirely by the Chinese government while Wanfeng is a publicly traded corporation. So all three are owned by Chinese corporations, but the way they treat customers is entirely different.

Fair point. When Diamond was owned by Christian Dries, the company had a reputation of poor support. Dries was clearly a visionary, but it sure seemed like he was always more interested in the next project than in taking care of existing customers and upgrading current models. I've long claimed on this forum that this attitude was cultural within Diamond - coming from the very top - but I usually get told this was not the case. I still believe it to be true.

To the OP - if you decide to purchase a Diamond product - spend a good bit of time on this forum reviewing posts about maintenance issues, support and upgrades. If you go in with your eyes open, you will at least have a better idea of what you will (or won't) be getting.

[CFIDave]

If you can find an older DA40NG with a Mercedes engine core with hundreds of hours less than 1800 hours (TBR when the Mercedes-derived engine will have to be replaced with a non-Mercedes Austro engine), then a turbodiesel DA40NG might be a better choice when flying out west around SLC. You'd be betting that by the time you hit 1800 hours, Austro will have come up with a terminating action for its piston AD affecting any replacement engine.

Otherwise get a more "bullet-proof" Lycoming DA40 and put up with the density altitude restrictions of a non-turbocharged engine.

I owned a Lycoming DA40 XLS for 4 years, and my pilot wife and I are currently dry leasing hours in a DA40NG to complement the Epic E1000 GX turboprop that we own -- so I have hundreds of hours flying in both types of DA40s. The DA40NG definitely provides a more refined, smoother/quieter experience, whereas the lighter (less nose-heavy) Lycoming DA40 performs better at lower altitudes, and is arguably slightly more fun to fly.