If you can afford a $500k- 2 million asset potentially being a hangar queen, then go ahead and buy one. I personally don’t see a valid reason to do so.
Soareyes wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 3:44 pm
Threatening "legal action" and roasting a company on social media makes one feel better temporarily but also burns bridges. Probably not worth it if you want to continue using their product. For those who can't let go you can still come back and complain even years after moving on to something else.
One always wonders what would be the other party's perspective. In the court of public opinion it carries more weight to post verifiable written quotes from actual emails of who said what and when.
For what it's worth, over on the Cirrus forum there are nearly identical tales of woe.
When a company is allowed to sell a defective product and charge you for the repair and replacement without any legal or financial repercussions, all anyone is left with is complaining on social media and forums.
Given your concerns about Diamond’s customer service and the Austro issues as you posted in another thread, why would you even consider buying an Austro powered Diamond at all? I don’t disagree with your assessment of the company and the Austro engines, I’m merely curious why you want one. They are beautiful airplanes with very nice handling qualities and superb safety features - but the engines are not reliable and Diamond support is not exactly industry leading.
JCOiii wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 7:06 pm
I really do want to get into a da42. So, given the current situation with diamond, their customer service, the austro engines, continentals, lycoming…
Which one would you buy in 2025?
I own a 2018 DA42 VI. My experience has mostly been positive. I've owned two Lycoming powered aircraft prior to this. The Diamond experience is different with several pros and cons. I don't know what your aircraft ownership experience is but any ga aircraft is subject to serious random maintenance issues. My conclusion after almost 4 years of Diamond Austro ownership is that focusing on having an excellent shop as close as possible is the most important thing to having a positive experience. My first couple of years were spent trying to work with a close-to-me-shop that really wasn't set up for Austro. Unfortunately that resulted in some expensive lessons. The last couple of years I've worked with one very good shop but 4 hours away. Despite the logistics hassle, its been worth it and the dispatch reliability has been good. More recently I've found a great shop <1hr away and that has been game changing.
This is no great insight but it has been my experience. Also despite what you hear on DAN, my experience has been that Diamond actually communicates reasonably well with shops they have a good relationship with. There are some excellent in house resources that handle maintenance issues same or next day. But I agree their communication with end users is relatively poor. I've just come to accept that as part of the deal. Doesn't make it right but I don't see it changing.
Meanwhile all the positives you know about the twin Diamonds are real and wonderful.
If you can afford a $500k- 2 million asset potentially being a hangar queen, then go ahead and buy one. I personally don’t see a valid reason to do so.
Soareyes wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 3:44 pm
Threatening "legal action" and roasting a company on social media makes one feel better temporarily but also burns bridges. Probably not worth it if you want to continue using their product. For those who can't let go you can still come back and complain even years after moving on to something else.
One always wonders what would be the other party's perspective. In the court of public opinion it carries more weight to post verifiable written quotes from actual emails of who said what and when.
For what it's worth, over on the Cirrus forum there are nearly identical tales of woe.
When a company is allowed to sell a defective product and charge you for the repair and replacement without any legal or financial repercussions, all anyone is left with is complaining on social media and forums.
Given your concerns about Diamond’s customer service and the Austro issues as you posted in another thread, why would you even consider buying an Austro powered Diamond at all? I don’t disagree with your assessment of the company and the Austro engines, I’m merely curious why you want one. They are beautiful airplanes with very nice handling qualities and superb safety features - but the engines are not reliable and Diamond support is not exactly industry leading.
A fair question and one I am currently asking myself.
JCOiii wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 7:06 pm
I really do want to get into a da42. So, given the current situation with diamond, their customer service, the austro engines, continentals, lycoming…
Which one would you buy in 2025?
I own a 2018 DA42 VI. My experience has mostly been positive. I've owned two Lycoming powered aircraft prior to this. The Diamond experience is different with several pros and cons. I don't know what your aircraft ownership experience is but any ga aircraft is subject to serious random maintenance issues. My conclusion after almost 4 years of Diamond Austro ownership is that focusing on having an excellent shop as close as possible is the most important thing to having a positive experience. My first couple of years were spent trying to work with a close-to-me-shop that really wasn't set up for Austro. Unfortunately that resulted in some expensive lessons. The last couple of years I've worked with one very good shop but 4 hours away. Despite the logistics hassle, its been worth it and the dispatch reliability has been good. More recently I've found a great shop <1hr away and that has been game changing.
This is no great insight but it has been my experience. Also despite what you hear on DAN, my experience has been that Diamond actually communicates reasonably well with shops they have a good relationship with. There are some excellent in house resources that handle maintenance issues same or next day. But I agree their communication with end users is relatively poor. I've just come to accept that as part of the deal. Doesn't make it right but I don't see it changing.
Meanwhile all the positives you know about the twin Diamonds are real and wonderful.
Thanks for your ownership perspective. My experience is limited to the flight club of which I am a member. We have 3 planes, one of which has been in and out of maintenance for numerous things. And it’s annoying.
And maybe it’s just the same as all other reviews- happy people don’t leave as many reviews as the few people who have had horrible experiences.
Even well run flight clubs/schools can be tough on complex airplanes. Previously, I owned a Mooney M20J and it was on a leaseback to a school for a couple of years. Different plane of course but the maintenance experience was VERY much improved when I took it out of the leaseback.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat the pros and cons but the off-line discussion I have with friends is different from what you see on here. There have been some real & serious issues but you will face this with any brand. Ownership of any complex, high performance aircraft (especially a twin!!) will involve a significant ongoing time and money investment but it still can be positive. Also be aware there are some prolific, loud posters on DAN who don't own a Diamond but primarily amplify any negative issue that comes up. Since this is an open forum, that is their right but make sure you calibrate what you are hearing with who you are hearing it from.
tjmoody wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:00 pm
Even well run flight clubs/schools can be tough on complex airplanes. Previously, I owned a Mooney M20J and it was on a leaseback to a school for a couple of years. Different plane of course but the maintenance experience was VERY much improved when I took it out of the leaseback.
I'm not trying to sugarcoat the pros and cons but the off-line discussion I have with friends is different from what you see on here. There have been some real & serious issues but you will face this with any brand. Ownership of any complex, high performance aircraft (especially a twin!!) will involve a significant ongoing time and money investment but it still can be positive. Also be aware there are some prolific, loud posters on DAN who don't own a Diamond but primarily amplify any negative issue that comes up. Since this is an open forum, that is their right but make sure you calibrate what you are hearing with who you are hearing it from.
Appreciate the perspective check for sure. It’s definitely easy to read the negative stuff and think it’s systemic when it’s anecdotal. Which is exactly why I started this thread. Trying to get a realistic view. It is totally understandable for someone who spent over a million dollars to be more than a little upset with the issues presented. But of the issues are not the norm, it’s worth knowing.
"Also be aware there are some prolific, loud posters on DAN who don't own a Diamond ANY LONGER but primarily amplify any negative issue that comes up. Since this is an open forum, that is their right but make sure you calibrate what you are hearing with who you are hearing it from."
I've owned three Diamond aircraft so although I don't own one any longer, you might want to consider the reason(s) why I no longer do (along with the other prolific posters who no longer own their Diamonds). Potential buyers should go in with their eyes open instead of thinking it's all puppy dogs and sunflowers.
No one's arguing it's puppy dogs and sunflowers. They are saying that no airframe or engine is free of bad/expensive consumer experiences and there's a lot of negative selection bias on this forum which combines poorly with Diamond's legendarily bad customer communication.
I appreciate everyone with good experiences showing up and sharing that not EVERYONE is having a miserable time.
We're all hoping the Austro engines "Grow up" and stabilize because the ongoing unleaded fuel discussion is not making avgas futures bright.
Having flown piston engines from all major manufacturers, they all have their issues.
Rotax carb-floats unfloat at will, CMI cylinders in turbo engines do not last until TBO under any circumstance. Lycoming crankshafts break in flight, Thielert high pressure pumps fail.
Our 42-VI was affected by the piston and oil pump MSB, both were resolved in less than 3 weeks.
Otherwise the plane works flawlessly and we could not think of a better platform to fly in all weather conditions around Europe.
Never had any issues that left us stranded during the 1500hrs that the airframe now has.
You need good maintenance which is willing to put pressure on DAI to resolve issues.
austrodom wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:13 pm
Having flown piston engines from all major manufacturers, they all have their issues.
Rotax carb-floats unfloat at will, CMI cylinders in turbo engines do not last until TBO under any circumstance. Lycoming crankshafts break in flight, Thielert high pressure pumps fail.
Our 42-VI was affected by the piston and oil pump MSB, both were resolved in less than 3 weeks.
Otherwise the plane works flawlessly and we could not think of a better platform to fly in all weather conditions around Europe.
Never had any issues that left us stranded during the 1500hrs that the airframe now has.
You need good maintenance which is willing to put pressure on DAI to resolve issues.
Thank you for the perspective and reminder that all makes and models could have issues that are super frustrating to owners.
