Looking to purchase DA62

Any DA62 related topics

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Linda
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Looking to purchase DA62

Post by Linda »

Hello all,

In the past, we have had 2 different DA40s, a Colombia 400 and now a Cirrus SR22T. We're really interested in a DA62. We even test flew one in Austria over a month ago.

However, checking with our maintenance center, we hear horrendous maintenance experiences regarding down time, parts availability, and Diamond support feedback. We were told if we are prepared for as long as 3 months down time waiting for parts and company feedback to go for it.

Any feedback from those on this forum (present and past owners would be greatly appreciated as we are looking for an airplane that is enjoyable to fly on a regular basis and not just pretty to look at.

Thank you in advance,
Linda
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Pehu
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by Pehu »

Linda,

I have heard similar stories and since I am too now contemplating DA62 - or some other traveller - in 2020, I asked Diamond directly about these issues and how they plan to tackle those. No reply yet (my rep came back from trip last Fri), I'll give them time to answer.

This maintenance / parts issue is one of the things that really worries me too. I know people in two maintenance shops that report long delivery times even to small simple parts. If something "bigger" breaks, yes, you can expect a long break in flying. At least from what I heard. Currently one local flight school has their DA42 grounded for 2-3 weeks because of basic parts delivery issue.

This has gone for 1-2 years to my understanding. I fail to understand why this is something that takes this long time to fix... or rather, why it hasn't been already fixed.

I have my DA40 waiting for warrantly repair as well, the issues (I can still fly, but there are some issues with canopy/back door) are still not fixed. I have to fly the plane to LOAN in spring which would hopefully correct the issues in the plane.
Helsinki-Malmi EFHF
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OH-WOW / DA40NG #N_328 (co-ownership, sold)
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jast
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by jast »

Hi!

I had similar thoughts, but still decided to get a DA62 in spring this year. It is just an awesome aircraft for my usage profile and everything else had other disadvantages. Talking to people I heard horror stories also from other aircraft manufacturers. Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s a huge effort to acquire spare parts due to the overburdened certification efforts. So it seems to be more a question of luck.

On my 2017 DA40NG I didn’t need any spare part beyond a broken secondary speed indicator. Last year the turbo charger had some cracks, but was replaced on good will after 2 years and 3 months. None of this caused any significant delay. Everything was available, also for the 100h and 300h inspections.

What also bothers me is the software support topic. But again not enough to swallow the bitter pill of other disadvantages of other aircrafts.

If in the future my usage profile changes and I have other options from manufacturers with better support, I would however consider those.

Regards,
Jan
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ememic99
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by ememic99 »

Pehu wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:59 pm
I asked Diamond directly about these issues and how they plan to tackle those. No reply yet (my rep came back from trip last Fri), I'll give them time to answer.
Good luck with this :)
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ememic99
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by ememic99 »

jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s a huge effort to acquire spare parts due to the overburdened certification efforts.
Can you explain the relation between spare parts delivery delay and certification?
jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
So it seems to be more a question of luck.
No, it's an issue of poorly organized spare parts delivery. Luck rarely plays any role in this type of business.
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rdrobson
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by rdrobson »

Linda wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:55 pm
Any feedback from those on this forum (present and past owners would be greatly appreciated as we are looking for an airplane that is enjoyable to fly on a regular basis and not just pretty to look at.
I had posted my experiences earlier here: https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/ ... 702#p75702.
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jast
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by jast »

ememic99 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:48 pm
jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s a huge effort to acquire spare parts due to the overburdened certification efforts.
Can you explain the relation between spare parts delivery delay and certification?
jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
So it seems to be more a question of luck.
No, it's an issue of poorly organized spare parts delivery. Luck rarely plays any role in this type of business.
Certification makes the whole supply chain super difficult. You have many single sources which you have to rely on. They have a huge burden to create stock due to the complex manufacturing and documentation. One simple example is the AustroEngine motor where you technically could get spare parts from the original mercedes motors. But they are not certified and therefore illegal. And also likely less tested and therefore not as as safe.

With „luck“ I meant that I know cases where little things block you for weeks because the supply chain is stuck. And a couple months later it’s not an issue anymore. So many horror stories you know might not apply for you in the future, but you can be unlucky and find another supply chain issue or lucky that your plane breaks only the available parts. It is not that Diamond ships all parts always after 3 months. They usually ship in a day or two...unless there is a supply chain issue.
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ememic99
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by ememic99 »

jast wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:43 am
ememic99 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:48 pm
jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s a huge effort to acquire spare parts due to the overburdened certification efforts.
Can you explain the relation between spare parts delivery delay and certification?
jast wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:32 pm
So it seems to be more a question of luck.
No, it's an issue of poorly organized spare parts delivery. Luck rarely plays any role in this type of business.
One simple example is the AustroEngine motor where you technically could get spare parts from the original mercedes motors. But they are not certified and therefore illegal. And also likely less tested and therefore not as as safe.
So, do you really mean that DAI does something special with those spare parts, like additional testing? Let’s take for example the “illegal” Mercedes injectors for AE. What do you think DAI does to these parts to make them legal, besides signing off paperwork? And then they sell them at double price after issuing replacement AD note that owners were not aware at purchase time.
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neptune2528
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by neptune2528 »

Linda,

I am a very new owner, having pickup up 62.C015 in October. As such, I do not have a ton of data points. Here is what I have:

- Waiting for delivery was borderline comical in how bad Diamond was with communication. 62.C015 was originally scheduled for May. After a string of "couple week" delays, it ended up in October. Some of this I cannot really complain about as there were issues in test flights that needed to be corrected. I am very appreciative of the risk of these types of problems that are difficult/impossible to predict and do not fault Diamond for any of that. Those issues, if I remember correctly, accounted for about 6 weeks of the total delivery delay. Now I would say, to my understanding, a few weeks of that 6 weeks was do to parts needing to be sent from Austria that somehow took weeks to get, but were sent rush delivery once they found the parts/got around to sending them. So overall, I think Diamond is really "responsible" for about 3 months of delays where the communication was flat out terrible and very misleading.

- Since delivery, I can say the machine itself is great. I couldn't be happier flying it. At 6'1" and not the thinnest guy, the space is very comfortable and far better than the SR22 in my opinion. I have used it on numerous long cross country flights and have enjoyed every minute of it. I did have one issue that we initially identified on the return flight from accepting the aircraft. There was an issue with the left aux tank not transferring to main. It worked until 5 gallons left and then crapped out. It worked a couple times after that on different flights, but was mostly inoperative on most flights. I expected the worst when trying to resolve this issue due to all of the feedback you are reading and are concerned with. Shockingly, I have to report that I am very happy with what turned out to be a relay that needed to be replaced. I called Diamond and they were immediately available and very willing to work with the crew at my home airport even though they are primarily a Cirrus shop (Diamond indicated they are comfortable working with any credible group...only engine work needs to be with certified shops is what I was told). The replacement part was available quicker than the crew was able to work on the machine and most of the delay in getting the part swapped was due to the maintenance crew's availability (was just replaced last week). Billing was super easy with my shop billing Diamond directly under warranty. So while maybe an outlier, call me very happy with this one experience.

- Phase II software upgrade/GTX345R certification. This topic falls back in the comical category. You can find a lot of talk about this issue on this board. It is completely understandable that certification is a complicated topic, but it is impossible to not question Diamond about a process that has not only been years long, but years past the original promises. This hasn't affected me much yet as I just took delivery, but it is hard to be optimistic that the upgrade will be available any time soon. I was promised to be put on the "will tell you as we advance through the process" back in September and have heard zero since. I followed up a couple weeks ago and got "working hard on it and expected to be finished soon"...not holding my breath.

In short, I would have to say that the biggest problems I have encountered are related to honesty in how long these delays really are and can be, which creates mismatches in expectations. I don't sense Diamond is purposefully misleading, but rather always providing "best case" answers rather than "most likely" or even "conservative" answers on timelines.

Hope this helped!
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jb642DA
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Re: Looking to purchase DA62

Post by jb642DA »

ememic99 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:07 am

So, do you really mean that DAI does something special with those spare parts, like additional testing? Let’s take for example the “illegal” Mercedes injectors for AE. What do you think DAI does to these parts to make them legal, besides signing off paperwork? And then they sell them at double price after issuing replacement AD note that owners were not aware at purchase time.
Before signing our purchase agreement, I received an hourly operating cost brochure (dated May, 2017) directly from a Diamond Aircraft (London, Ont, Canada) employee via email.

The "brochure" shows Scheduled Mx Parts, Overhaul Costs and Scheduled Mx Hours/Flight Hour. There are no 900 hour "mandatory replacement" items in that 2017 brochure..........

The latest operating cost brochure I've seen, dated 2/21/2019 (stating costs as "excluding aircrafts registered in the USA" ), does show the 900 hour items.

This 2019 brochure shows the costs for the "900 hour" items of 17,080 Euros.
("100+300+900 hr" items of €21 629,96 minus the cost of the "100+300 hr" items of €4 549,96 = €17 080).

In US dollars that's $18,900 for the 900 hour items that were not in the May 2017 "cost" brochure.
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (member, Eagle 742 LLC)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
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