New here, insurance question

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
LimaZulu
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:05 am
First Name: Anon
Aircraft Type: DA40NG
Aircraft Registration: 00000
Airports: CYKZ

New here, insurance question

Post by LimaZulu »

Hi folks,

I'm new to the Diamond community, and currently awaiting delivery of a DA40NG (ordered in December 2021, delivery slipped to end of Q4 2022).

I'm currently shopping around for insurance quotes (hull + liability), and so far they left me in sadness. The ranges I'm seeing (in Canada) are 14-25 aviation units... per year. I didn't expect to be cheap, but is this the reality of things?

I have a PPL, multi and night rating with a ~170hrs total. I'm fully checked out in a SR22T on my buddy's plane, as I was told this will have a positive impact on the insurance rate given that its a high performance aircraft, and a DA40 is a "downgrade". I have 0hrs on type, and the insurance conditions stipulate that I should have at least 10hrs dual on type before going solo to be insured, which seems pretty reasonable.

Would love to hear some thoughts, and what others pay with more than 0 hours on type.

Thanks!
User avatar
vincent99
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:52 am
First Name: Vincent
Aircraft Type: DA40NG
Aircraft Registration: Nlooking
Airports: KCHD

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by vincent99 »

I'm shopping for a lightly-used (don't want to wait out that year…) DA40NG and have started getting quotes. In the US (Arizona) instead of Canada so dunno what's typical there, but that looks super high from here even if your numbers are in $CAD.

Based on $500k hull value, recently finished PPL with ~100hrs total time including 10 in-type (they only wanted 3):

- $1m combined, $100k per pax: $6,600/yr
- $1m combined, $200k per pax: $6,800/yr
- $1m combined, smooth: $7,100/yr

With $5k medical and open pilot for 300 PIC time + 5 in-type.

(all in USD)
User avatar
mhoran
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:56 pm
First Name: Matt
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N269RB
Airports: KLDJ
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 120 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by mhoran »

Our last renewal was $3558 for hull value of 265k and 1mm smooth liability. There are two pilots on the policy, both instrument rated, many hundred hours in type at this point. The rate has steadily crept upward over the year despite adding ratings and flight time.
User avatar
dmloftus
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 3:38 pm
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N868US
Airports: KLZU
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 144 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by dmloftus »

Those numbers seem extremely high compared to my 2008XLS. For $1M liability, $250K hull (probably need to increase to >$300K with recent appreciation), I'm paying $1582 per year through Travers. I'm PPL SEL w/Instrument rating, I have almost 700 hours TT and 300 in type, with complex and high performance. I'm also a solo owner.
Seems you should definitely go log some dual with a flight school that flies Diamonds - a very good idea even ignoring the insurance expense. While our DA40's are fantastic aircraft and relatively easy to fly, you will undoubtedly be a much safer pilot getting some training from experts. Especially with the heavier-nosed DA40NG. And hopefully save a few $$$ in the process.
User avatar
LimaZulu
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:05 am
First Name: Anon
Aircraft Type: DA40NG
Aircraft Registration: 00000
Airports: CYKZ

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by LimaZulu »

vincent99 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:33 pm I'm shopping for a lightly-used (don't want to wait out that year…) DA40NG and have started getting quotes. In the US (Arizona) instead of Canada so dunno what's typical there, but that looks super high from here even if your numbers are in $CAD.

Based on $500k hull value, recently finished PPL with ~100hrs total time including 10 in-type (they only wanted 3):

- $1m combined, $100k per pax: $6,600/yr
- $1m combined, $200k per pax: $6,800/yr
- $1m combined, smooth: $7,100/yr

With $5k medical and open pilot for 300 PIC time + 5 in-type.

(all in USD)
Yes, my prices were in CAD. That's actually not that far off from the cheapest quote I got, which was 9.5k USD ($590k hull), however its a no go for me due to 1M liability, as the financing folks wanted 2M minimum and this vendor refused to go higher than 1M for whatever reason. Next best thing is ~12K USD.

All of these assume a 25k CAD deductible, by the way.

TIL - "smooth liability".

dmloftus wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:49 am Those numbers seem extremely high compared to my 2008XLS. For $1M liability, $250K hull (probably need to increase to >$300K with recent appreciation), I'm paying $1582 per year through Travers. I'm PPL SEL w/Instrument rating, I have almost 700 hours TT and 300 in type, with complex and high performance. I'm also a solo owner.
Seems you should definitely go log some dual with a flight school that flies Diamonds - a very good idea even ignoring the insurance expense. While our DA40's are fantastic aircraft and relatively easy to fly, you will undoubtedly be a much safer pilot getting some training from experts. Especially with the heavier-nosed DA40NG. And hopefully save a few $$$ in the process.
I'm planning to do an IFR rating after I log at least 50hrs on type, but it will take years for me to reach your hrs. The only place near Toronto (as far as I know) that rents DA40s is Collingwood, which is a 2hr drive and I would have to enroll into their school to do a rating of some kind to get access to the planes. I'm most likely gonna log more than the 10hrs dual time with a local instructor before going solo anyway. Maybe pickup a VFR over the top rating while I'm at it. But good to see such low $ numbers are possible.
User avatar
Boatguy
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1295
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
First Name: Russ
Aircraft Type: DA40NG
Aircraft Registration: N454M
Airports: KSTS
Has thanked: 814 times
Been thanked: 806 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Boatguy »

Have you thought of finding a new lender? I'm mystified why they care about liability as they have none. The lender should only need to know that you're covered to the amount of the loan.

For my 2019 DA40NG, I pay $3,800 USD for $475K of hull coverage, $0 deductible and $1M of liability.
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2525
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 1293 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by CFIDave »

A very rough rule of thumb is to start with the plane's hull value. Then a 1% per year premium is about the least expensive coverage for experienced pilots, ranging up to 3% annual premium for those with very low hours and/or no time in type.

So for a new $600K (US$) DA40NG being flown by a pilot with no time in type and low total hours, expect the first year's premium to be as high as 3%, or about $18K (US$).
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
dmloftus
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 3:38 pm
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N868US
Airports: KLZU
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 144 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by dmloftus »

CFIDave wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:20 pm A very rough rule of thumb is to start with the plane's hull value. Then a 1% per year premium is about the least expensive coverage for experienced pilots, ranging up to 3% annual premium for those with very low hours and/or no time in type.
Wow, I guess I’m very fortunate at 0.6%
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4074
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 126 times
Been thanked: 934 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Rich »

I used to be at about .8% of insured hull value until a couple of years back. It's now at 1% and has stayed steady since. This happened when I turned >72 years old. This was also at the time A/C insurance rates were generally increasing across the board.

IIRC when we picked up the plane, new at the factor, hull insurance for us was about 1% of insured value. This was in 2002 and neither of us (I had a partner) had any DA40 time. In fact, almost nobody not working for Diamond had any DA40 time. :D No instructors, DPE's, nobody.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Mjwatlanta
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat May 14, 2022 9:35 pm
First Name: Michael
Aircraft Type: DA40NG
Aircraft Registration: N161DA
Airports: Kfty
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Mjwatlanta »

I don’t have policy with me so this from memory. I’m low time since restarting flying this year. No credit for my 40 years ago time. All recent time in da40. 580k hull value, 1m liability for $11,000 or so. I’m promised instrument rating will reduce it substantially. Agent is David Asman. His father Sandy was on this forum before his da40 was crushed in a tornado. David.asman@indemnifly.com.
Post Reply