New here, insurance question

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dant
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by dant »

my rate cut in half after the first year - i got IR and passed 200 hours. I had been told it would maybe drop 10%, but went from iirc ~8k/yr to <4k/yr for a 2008 XLS. Unsure why, but I was happy to see it.

Probably need to up the hull value though... are used da40s still going for absurd rates?
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by ememic99 »

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:24 pm Was wondering about that as well. My policy has a 0$ deductible. Are deductibles a Canada thing?
I guess not only Canadian thing because they exist in Europe as well. However, 50k looks pretty much, especially looking overall policy cost.
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gcampbe2
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by gcampbe2 »

Rich wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:11 pm
gcampbe2 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:53 pm
Hull USD 550,000 rate 1.75%= USD 9,625
Liability USD 2,000,000 = USD 1250
Deductible USD: 50,000
Total: USD 10,875
$50,000 deductible? Is that accurate? :shock:
Yes, the $50K deductible is accurate. That $50K deductible saved me an additional $2K in insurance costs. The logic was: If I do minor damage, I can live with eating that. If I total the aircraft, I'd like to get most of my investment back. Still, I'm hoping that next year I'll be able to drop the deductible without a serious increase in rates, now that I'm more experienced.

I'm very interested if any low time, non-instrument rated Canadian DA40NG owners have been able to land a better deal. It's very possible I'm getting fleeced.
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Rich
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Rich »

Having a deductible is common. My Avemco policy way back when had a $1,000 deductible, though a few years ago it magically reduced to $0. The deductible is waived (if I still had it) in certain cases, including total loss. Insurance for my truck, car, and motorcycle all have varying deductibles, $50-$200, depending on the type of claim.

But I've never heard of anything like $50K. Something to think about: I've had two claims on my bird. One was a prop ding that, with R&R, crating and shipping, came to about $6K. The other was a bird strike that came to $10K. This included the repair itself, the cost of the paperwork and ferry pilot to transport it to a repair facility, and travel cost for me to fly down a few weeks later to pick it up. Both of these happened in the first two years of ownership.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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BenPeterson77
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by BenPeterson77 »

I recently did a Diamond Aircraft Insurance Guide for 2022, estimating rates for each type of operation and actual quotes we have been providing Diamond owners. So far in 2022 we have seen rates pretty flat, some increases, and some decreases for pilots that started with a Private and now have an Instrument and more make and model time.

An easy way to estimate or visualize the premium for a Diamond Aircraft is: 1%, 2%, and 3%
-1% of the hull value for pilots with a Private and Instrument rating and non-commercial flight operations
-2% of the hull value for pilots with just a Private and working on an Instrument and Multi-Engine license
-3% of the hull value for Student Pilots working on a Private Pilot License, also Commercial flight operations like flight schools

I hope this helps!

Ben Peterson
https://sunsetais.com/airplanes/diamond/
Last edited by BenPeterson77 on Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Charles
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Charles »

A few data points from a Canadian insured through COPA (Magnes) on a policy underwritten by a well known US insurer. I have 1400 hrs in the DA40 and an IFR rating, no claims/incidents, and the plane is hangared.
  • Hull insurance premium is 1.6% of hull coverage value
  • Combined liability premium is 0.041% of total liability coverage
  • Separate liability coverage with a 300k limit per pax would be 0.02% of total liability coverage (that's not what I have but it's quoted on my policy)
IFR rating gives a 5% discount on hull and liability premiums, making hull premium 1.52% and combined liability 0.039%.
Hangar gives a 15% discount on hull premium which, combined with an IFR rating, makes hull premium 1.28%.
A commercial rating makes no difference (I asked recently)

So a hangared 500k CAD plane for an IFR-rated owner with 2M CAD combined liability would be $6,400 hull + $817 liability = $7,217 CAD total ($5,317 USD at today's FX rate)

There is no deductible on that policy.
LimaZulu wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:26 pm Yes, my prices were in CAD. That's actually not that far off from the cheapest quote I got, which was 9.5k USD ($590k hull)
Are you implying that you were able to get a quote from a US insurer? or did you just make the conversion? Although my policy is underwritten by a US company, I've never been able to get a quote directly from a US broker or insurer who claim not to cover non-US planes (not true, obviously) and I wish I could access the US insurance rates.
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by LimaZulu »

The policies were provided in USD (I converted to CAD in initial post), as the aircraft is quoted/billed in US dollars, these are from various Canada affiliated branches of multi-nationals. Jonathan from WTWCO is helping me. The ranges I got were wild.

Starting from ~9.5k USD (CAIG) all the way to ~19k USD (AXA XL). The latter quote required me to: get an IFR rating, coverage in Canada only, sign off from class 2 instructor, and literally and I kid you not - complete "Cirrus Embark Training". 3 other quotes were within that range, almost evenly spaced out.
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by KJH »

BenPeterson77 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:22 am I recently did a Diamond Aircraft Insurance Guide for 2022, estimating rates for each type of operation and actual quotes we have been providing Diamond owners. So far in 2022 we have seen rates pretty flat, some increases, and some decreases for pilots that started with a Private and now have an Instrument and more make and model time.

An easy way to estimate or visualize the premium for a Diamond Aircraft is: 1%, 2%, and 3%
-1% of the hull value for pilots with a Private and Instrument rating and non-commercial flight operations
-2% of the hull value for pilots with just a Private and working on an Instrument and Multi-Engine license
-3% of the hull value for Student Pilots working on a Private Pilot License, also Commercial flight operations like flight schools

I hope this helps!

Ben Peterson
https://sunsetais.com/airplanes/diamond/
Be interested in your view; I had a few hundred hours when I lost my medical. Now I can get a CAA medical; I'm 58 and planning on a ME-IR; hopefully, I will all be done by Jun next year. I can add a CPL (I'll only pay a little more for my CAA Class 1 medical, (which I need to sit the CPL test) and once it expires, it is good for PPL for another six months), so instead of being a PPL-MEIR, I'll be a CPL-MEIR operating on UK CAA Class 3 medical. After sitting the test, I'll renew my CAA Class 3 medical. Would this affect my insurance?

To simplify the question, will the CPL reduce my premiums or allow me to get insurance for longer as I get older?

I appreciate any help you can provide.

Thanks
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BenPeterson77
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by BenPeterson77 »

I think any additional qualifications you can add to your resume will help, including a Multi Commercial. Although in a hard market like we're in right now be may be less of a discount then you'd think. If anything you may get additional underwriters to quote if the rest of the details align like - Total Time, Multi, DA42 or DA62 time, any fractional owners, any non-owned or additional exposure, and previous claims history.
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Rich
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Re: New here, insurance question

Post by Rich »

I don't know how common this is, but Avemco gives discounts simply for membership in an "Aviation Group". In my case AOPA and EAA.
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