Buying a first aircraft help

Any DA40 related topics

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Rick
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by Rick »

The VNV button on the MFD bezel is not necessarily the determining factor for WAAS in the XL. My 2007 XL had the WAAS upgrade (so GIA63W's), but they did not upgrade the MFD so no VNV button. I agree with the others that WAAS is a big deal, both functionally and cost-wise, but I think the VNV button is much less important - it's not needed to fly WAAS-based approaches. I never missed it.
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chili4way
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by chili4way »

"No misunderstandings, no surprises" is the goal of pre-buy assessments. These seldom turn out to be in the buyer's favor.
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by CFIDave »

Rick wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:51 pm The VNV button on the MFD bezel is not necessarily the determining factor for WAAS in the XL. My 2007 XL had the WAAS upgrade (so GIA63W's), but they did not upgrade the MFD so no VNV button. I agree with the others that WAAS is a big deal, both functionally and cost-wise, but I think the VNV button is much less important - it's not needed to fly WAAS-based approaches. I never missed it.
You're correct that it's possible to perform the GIA63W WAAS upgrade without also swapping out the MFD to get the VNV button, but the majority of 2007 XL WAAS installations I've seen (and sold as an aircraft broker) have included it. IMHO, having coupled Vertical Navigation (VNAV) autopilot functionality is a very useful feature of the GFC700 -- independent of flying WAAS/LPV approaches. As a buyer I'd want to have it.
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by cereal_killer »

Good tip thanks. Have pictures indeed it does not have a VNV button. Also asked the dealer and he said he doesn't think it has it.
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Rick
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by Rick »

cereal_killer wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:09 pmGood tip thanks. Have pictures indeed it does not have a VNV button. Also asked the dealer and he said he doesn't think it has it.
If by "doesn't have it", you mean WAAS, then I would say $330k is definitely overpriced! If it has WAAS but just not VNV, then it may not be (depending on condition, hours, etc. as Dave said).
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by cereal_killer »

Rick wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:20 pm If by "doesn't have it", you mean WAAS, then I would say $330k is definitely overpriced! If it has WAAS but just not VNV, then it may not be (depending on condition, hours, etc. as Dave said).
Yeah so to be clear no WAAS and no VNV (as far as I know). Am checking further directly with the owner to see if it has WAAS because the dealer said he "thinks" it doesn't have WAAS.
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Rich
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by Rich »

Soareyes wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:34 pm Going with faulty memory from 15 years ago but weren't the XL models a bit tail heavy? The XL was when they added the TAS active traffic units but they put it way back in the fuselage behind the rear seats. In the XLS they installed the unit more anterior. Some of the XL planes later had the traffic unit moved forward.
Of you look at the wiki here on the site you'll see that starting in 2007 into 2010, to DA40's got noticeably heavier and the CG moved well aft. But the data doesn't track XL vs XLS, etc. model designation and no one has posted anything newer.
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by pisymbol »

cereal_killer wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:39 pm
pisymbol wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:04 pm 330k is A LOT. I would wait. Also, no WAAS, no sale or you need to plan to upgrade.
Do you think it's a lot? I had a look at ads on controller for similar aircraft and seems like most of the asking prices are somewhere in the region of $350-370k. So 330k is their asking price (though they said they have a potential buyer for 325k).

I am not in a massive rush so indeed could wait a bit for the right model to come to the market.
It is insane actually. And if you pull the trigger, I am willing to bet you that your bird will be under water within a few months time.

The used GA market is completely over inflated right now (by at least 20%). COVID caused a huge influx of new pilots and stock was low. So plane prices skyrocketed (supply/demand).

A solid DA40 with a G1000 (say 2005ish) should be around 200kish. I think on Controller there is at least two that are around 250k. It depends on options (GFC700 vs KAP140 for instance).

I think in the next quarter or two you are going to see a large drop in prices as interest rates increase and people realize this price insanity. It has already begun (look at the 177 market which went nutso for a while and is now coming back down to reality).

Wait a few months. Seriously, you'll save 50k or more.
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by mhoran »

VREF shows a 2007 with no WAAS at 312k and a 2008 with WAAS at 338k. Based on that, 330 for a 2007 with no WAAS is certainly overpriced. I'd say you have some room for negotiation there. If the plane had been upgraded to WAAS then there is very little difference between the XL and XLS and 330 would make sense, but the owner would certainly know if it had been upgraded, so that doesn't seem like a good deal.

As someone who has WAAS but opted not to replace the MFD during the upgrade, that's not a tell-tale sign. But one would definitely know if the upgrade was performed.

Early 2007s with the aluminum two blade Hartzell prop don't have a CG or weight issue. TAS was also a common option, which I have as well. Also, make sure it has ADS-B at that price point, or else that's going to be an additional $10k on top. TAWS was also a standard option in 2007; make sure they provide the unlock card, or ask for $1000 off in order to go through the process of getting a replacement card from Diamond Canada.

It has already been said to do a thorough pre-buy and I can't stress this enough. I fell into the trap of using the mechanic that the broker recommended. While they did fix some issues, they overlooked quite a few others, and I had a lot of issues to fix post purchase. Also, consider how much time is left on the engine. Overhauls are currently backed up quite a bit. My plane has been down since August. Check whether major inspections like the MSI has been performed, and when the last 1000 hour inspections were performed (bonding and essential bus checks.)
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Re: Buying a first aircraft help

Post by pisymbol »

mhoran wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:54 pm VREF shows a 2007 with no WAAS at 312k and a 2008 with WAAS at 338k.
Where did you get that VREF number? That is insanely high.
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