Prebuy// sale experience

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firedwg1
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Prebuy// sale experience

Post by firedwg1 »

Just wanted to share my experience with a prebuy on N473DS and express the importance to visit the aircraft in person.

N473DS 2012/13 currently listed with lifestyle aviation looked wonderful in the edited photo posted online. It was listed as “meticulously maintained, ready to fly”. Located at KCDW

We toss a pretty high offer on the aircraft and sign and abnormal contract on lifestyles website two weeks ago. I requested logbooks prebuy everything. I was then given photo copies of a log books with important ares covered and unreadable to do a proper inspection. On Presidents’ Day i suggested to the broker that we were going to walk from the sale because the logbooks were not provided. I was then reminded by the broker that i would lose 50k in a deposit that I had in escrow if I did not follow through with the sale… red flag.

I received readable logs on Tuesday which brought a multitude of expired equipment to include compression issues with cylinder number 3.

Wednesday morning I decide with this threat of getting into litigation with lifestyle aviation I better fly out from SoCal and baby sit this prebuy. A few hours later I was called lifestyle aviation saying that a non stc configuration was installed for ads-b i can walk away at this time. Seeing that i already paid for a flight and hotel I did not walk away…. My impression I would have not received this call if it wasn’t for be about to travel

(Im including this to help anyone in a prebuy )
So I shoot an email to the inspection facility

1. It brought to my attention that Andenture Aviation is confirming the issue that the Garmin representative identified to me as N473DS does not have an authorized ADS-B installed for this aircraft configuration therefore is not technically compliant with the airframe and misrepresented the listing as compliant to ADS-B. We will be requesting an install credit for complete compliance in the near future. We understand that GTR345R is backordered 8 months.
2. Additional review of the log books that need confirmation is Jeppesen charts unlock as has been installed, this needs to also be verified as it also does not match the listing description
3. I need pull the GDL69/69A radio numbers from the G1000 Menu
4. Cyc 3 Identified as an inspection target for low compression 60/80.
5. OIl Analysis from blackstone send to be sent out with my label

fInally emails over a list of items we needed to verify for this prebuy inspection on my prebuy walkthrough
1. AMSAFE replacement, inflators control module ( this back ordered if not completed)
2. Guardian CO replacement date
3. AD compliance Aft wing Spar reinforcement and with fuel lines
4. AD Check in general
5. Compressions / Borescope ( send photos)
6. Interior map lights operational
7. ELT Battery replacement date
8. G1000 Backup Battery replacement date
9. Main Battery Capacity Check replacement date
10. Brakes & tire conditions
11. Throttle body & bolts condition and alt-Air operational with clean air filter
12. night interior hood and map lamps operational
13. power flow exhaust inspection ( looking for warping & cracks) and related hoses. remove & reinstall
14. power flow insert replacement
15. SVT Software UNLOCK Keys and NAV cards
16. 2020 ADS-B compliance NON COMPLIANT WITH AIRFRAME
17. Oil Sample sent to blackstone
18. IFR certification date
19. Interior and exterior condition rated 1-10, 10 being perfect
20. ensure door locks work and are not broken or need replacement

Thursday March 1st I head over to NJ…

Friday I get eyes on N473DS, 0800hrs local before they start the prebuy inspection I start my walk around looking at all items of concern. Mind you this was a wonderful maintained aircraft with great photos…

1. Exterior rating 3 of 10 missing gel coat
2. Interior rating 6 of 10 filthy needs work
3. Starting with left pilots exterior,
A. Undocumented leading edge damage on left wing.
B. Aft trim control service bolts corroded
C. Right Main gear, break seals leaking
4. Engine,
A. Spark plugs corroded on cylinder 2 and 3
B. Exhaust leaks Cyl 4
C. Compression on cylinder 3, 58/80 failed as expected
D. Power flow exhaust carb heat / cracked heater box
E. Leaking prop Governor, likely contributed to the failed started that was replaced
F. Guardian CO detector beyond recommend replacement life span.
G. All batteries expired
H. Amsafe expired
I. Aft spar ad required
j. Fuel line inspection ad required

It was at this point, I stopped a prebuy at 815 am and told them to do as the seller requested roll right into the annual no prebuy reported need due to undisclosed damages.

Here’s my point.

1.If someone offers an untraditional contract walk away. Or Don’t sign it until you understand it. Trying up make the buyer avoid a prebuy is complete fraud. Buyer should have the authority to walk away through acceptance flight.

2. Go see the aircraft in person.

3. Don’t take anyone’s word, it’s a wonderful plane, it flys great” it’s got the best equipment” it’s well maintained” it looks great” All BS means nothing and likely lying to collect a commission of in this case 6.5% (extraordinarily high)
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gyro3816
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by gyro3816 »

I purchased 2 aircraft through lifestyle aviation and I have had nothing but great experiences with that entire team. Obviously, I have not read your contract, but my contracts both clearly spelled out option to cancel during pre-buy without losing the deposit. If you didn’t like the contract then why did you sign it ?
Of the items discovered during pre-buy, I was able to negotiate my final contract down - just like purchasing a home.
Lifestyle flew the ac to me so that my shop could do the prebuy - we added a clause to the contract so that if I rejected the ac during pre-buy, I would cover flight costs to return ac to NC. Pretty fair contract as far as I was concerned.

I’m sorry to hear of your bad experience.
Adam
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firedwg1
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by firedwg1 »

Good points, but the facts are the facts and n473Ds in its current condition, is a pile of poop…

Contract was modified somehow to try remove the prebuy exit…
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JanSq
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by JanSq »

gyro3816 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:25 pm I purchased 2 aircraft through lifestyle aviation and I have had nothing but great experiences with that entire team. Obviously, I have not read your contract, but my contracts both clearly spelled out option to cancel during pre-buy without losing the deposit. If you didn’t like the contract then why did you sign it ?
Of the items discovered during pre-buy, I was able to negotiate my final contract down - just like purchasing a home.
Lifestyle flew the ac to me so that my shop could do the prebuy - we added a clause to the contract so that if I rejected the ac during pre-buy, I would cover flight costs to return ac to NC. Pretty fair contract as far as I was concerned.

I’m sorry to hear of your bad experience.
May I ask if you purchased new or used aircraft in both situations? Sounds like at least one was a used aircraft.

I bought a new-from-the factory DA40 in 2010 from John Armstrong (who worked for Premier Aircraft at the time). John was very helpful in teaching me how to care for the airplane. The airplane now has 3000 hours on it and is going strong.

However, I have heard somewhat similar stories about dealing with John and Lifestyle over used aircraft in the recent past. It makes me sad as I hate to hear of these unfortunate deals.
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gyro3816
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by gyro3816 »

I purchases 2 used aircraft from lifestyle.
You can and should ask for any addendums to a contract to make you comfortable before you sign. Don’t ever rely on a handshake.

For example on my deposit contract - I had this added —>
Special Contingency : Buyer has 10 days from receipt of logbook entries to review aircraft, damage, history, and if unsatisfied request in writing full refund of buyers deposit.”
Adam
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firedwg1
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by firedwg1 »

I wish John was involved on this one … this was very embarrassing for this company. Complete fraud
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by firedwg1 »

:thumbsd: https://www.lifestyleaviation.com/inven ... u00115-115

:tap: “This one-of-a-kind DA40 XLT is ready to fly away to its new owner! Meticulously kept by one owner since factory new, N473DS has all the upgraded features of the DA40 XLT”

Everything is this description is a lie, plus it was on some sort of lease back program… and then sold to two urologist who just left it on Tiedown in at kCDW to rot. Not that Tiedown see bad, but Tiedown in NJ is awful for a plane.


It’s still for sell if anyone wants to make an informed offer…. Its build / register date with the faa is December 2012.

If everything is fixed with repaint and stickers, less the undocumented wing damaged and the none approved install of the gdl82 with extra antenna installed it make someone a nice plane.
Last edited by firedwg1 on Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steve
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by Steve »

Sorry for your bad experience. So, are you still buying? I would expect an airplane of that age to have a few warts, like rusty fasteners (especially one parked outside). I would be more concerned at all of the ADs that weren’t performed, and the apparent effort by the broker to misrepresent the aircraft.

Sloppy logs would be another red flag. In my book sloppy logs = sloppy maintenance. I hope that everything works out for you…
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firedwg1
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by firedwg1 »

^ exactly,

yes I’m in a pre-buy now. Buying another XLS older but well cared for with clean logbooks.
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Re: Prebuy// sale experience

Post by Boatguy »

firedwg1 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:47 pm I wish John was involved on this one … this was very embarrassing for this company. Complete fraud
John owns Lifestyle Aviation.
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