N611VG crash in Virginia

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Boatguy
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by Boatguy »

I experienced that in my instrument training when I was past WPT2 and the FD indicated a turn to the course from WPT1 to WPT2. I turned, CFII squawked!
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Joey
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by Joey »

From the reports I heard, the f16s saw the pilot slumped over which may have been an incapacitation or pressurization issue. I plugged in his flight path on garmin pilot and after CCC the final approach course was 239. Someone posted the flight aware data and the heading continued on 239 until it ran out of gas (presumably).

I’m sure there is some type of alarm for cabin pressure in a citation but was curious if there was a backup indicator or if there is some type of automatic deployof an o2 mask.

From my usn training in the altitude chamber, it doesn’t take long to become giddy and euphoric at high altitude. You ability to reason goes away quickly.
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Ed McDonald
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by Ed McDonald »

This was a 1990 Citation V so I don’t know what avionics it had but certainly not the original stuff.
Most flight management systems go into a heading hold mode after the last waypoint in the flight plan. The pilot likely loaded the entire route into the FMS including the ILS RW24 which had a transition from the CCC VOR and a final approach track of 239 degrees. After flying the localizer it picked up that heading.

If you watch Dan Gryder, he has got it wrong…a rapid depressurization produces the fog and opaque windows however this appears to be a slow, insidious depressurization which does not have those characteristics. He claims that this was not a depressurization as there was no frost on the windows.

The O2 masks in the cockpit would be quick donning but not those that fall from the ceiling like an airline cabin. The pilot(s) would have to be aware of a hypoxia event to don the masks.
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Colin
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by Colin »

Single pilot. The company had owned the plane for a month. There's not a lot of time to make a correction if you are above 25,000 feet. (I don't know what they are going to find with this plane, but with Payne Stewart's plane (two pilots) they found that the emergency oxygen bottle had its valve in the "closed" position still. Apparently on later serial numbers that was automatic, but on that plane you had to turn the valve as you set up the plane for a flight.
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by MackAttack »

I am not sure they will find much, as I believe there wasn’t much left after the impact and it’s not clear to me that the plane had a CVR/CDR installed. Hopefully they find something useful … very sad and tragic event. RIP and condolences to all. I love that airframe too …
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Re: N611VG crash in Virginia

Post by CFIDave »

Ed McDonald wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:59 amIf you watch Dan Gryder, he has got it wrong…a rapid depressurization produces the fog and opaque windows however this appears to be a slow, insidious depressurization which does not have those characteristics. He claims that this was not a depressurization as there was no frost on the windows.

The O2 masks in the cockpit would be quick donning but not those that fall from the ceiling like an airline cabin. The pilot(s) would have to be aware of a hypoxia event to don the masks.
I heard that ATC lost communications with the pilot within 15 minutes of takeoff, which implies that proper pressurization never occurred during the initial climb to FL340. If so, that would have accounted for no frost on the windows, and no sudden "loss of pressurization event" that would have encouraged the pilot to reach for a quick-don O2 mask.

On our Epic E1000 single-engine turboprop, if the plane is cruising on autopilot at FL340 AND a cabin altitude high alarm is received AND the pilot doesn't do anything for 30 seconds, the G1000 NXi will:
- Turn the plane 90 deg (to get off a presumed airway the plane was flying), and
- Descend at the highest speed possible -- just below the Vne "barber pole" down to 15,000 feet, where the pilot will presumably regain consciousness.

But unfortunately because the plane doesn't have auto-throttles, there's no way for the G1000 NXi to reduce power. The result is that the plane can descend no faster than 300 fpm without exceeding Vne, which means it'll take an hour !!! for the plane to descend to 15,000 feet. If the pilot is hypoxic and unconscious for that long, he/she will likely be dead by the time the plane levels off at 15,000 feet...
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