Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

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Antoine
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Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Antoine » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:06 pm

... been watching their progress. What a beauty.
There is a nice video of tuft testing on youtu.be that shows how graceful the plane is.

I really hope they make it through certification without too much delay and offer de-icing right away.
If they do, they have my business for sure.

I also sometimes wonder what the Panthera would do with a 155 HP turbo-diesel.
Blow everything else out of the (non US) sky... I think...
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Gasser » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:45 pm

I'm watching there progress with great interest. I have a Cirrus right now but would love a de iced Panthera. And agree, it's one of the most beautiful designs I've seen. Like a modern mooney with a parachute. If it performed even close to advertised it will sell in great numbers. Even 170 knots at 10 gph LOP would beat my Cirrus non turbo. If it got into the 180s then it would be killer.
That said, I am not expecting to see any LOP speeds higher than 160 knots from it. ROP I bet it will do in the 170-180 range but time will tell. I'm guessing the 10.x gph there claiming is in the rich region and probably right in the middle of the Deacons red fin area. Not someplace I'm willing to operate an aircraft. Just a guess though based on where I operated my IO360. To be under the red fin I had to be in the low 9s to high 8 gph. Add a little to there's because it's a larger motor with more power.
Watching with great interest though.
Jeff

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2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Erik » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:53 pm

Antoine wrote:... been watching their progress. What a beauty.
There is a nice video of tuft testing on youtu.be that shows how graceful the plane is.

I really hope they make it through certification without too much delay and offer de-icing right away.
If they do, they have my business for sure.

I also sometimes wonder what the Panthera would do with a 155 HP turbo-diesel.
Blow everything else out of the (non US) sky... I think...


I have not purchased - but here is one you can enjoy in the meanwhile for much less expensive, and enjoy its beautiful sleek lines:

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/x- ... ail?no=531

It looks so much like a retractable DA40's older sleeker faster cousin, with so many characteristic aspects. If it had come out of Diamond called the DA60 everyone would have said it showed its heritage.
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby ByronH » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:44 pm

I'm too have been watching their progress with great interest. It is indeed a beauty.

After viewing the several pictures and videos that are available, I wonder about pilot forward visibility. Will the center canopy support create a "blind spot"? Sure hope not!
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Antoine » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:36 pm

Byron: I sat in the plane in Friedrichshafen last year. Visibility is not as good as in the DA40 and yes there was a blind spot, but it did not seem too bad. The good news (IIRC) is that the top of the panel is lower than that of the DA40 which I (and others who flew with me) find annoyingly high.

Erik - thanks for the link. Hopefully the final aircraft will look as nice as it is now. I am concerned that there is a reason for the DA40's disproportionate tail, and that Pipistrel might end up adding area there after failing the spin recovery tests. That could hurt a lot, not just aesthetically because it will increase wetted area and the structural requirements on the rear fuselage, resulting in more drag and empty weight, not to mention the delay and cost issues...

Jeff, I read somewhere that the Panthera prototype made 180 KTAS on its flight to Friedrichshafen.

We can work out at least one data point regarding fuel burn: If we suppose
- Maximum cruise speed will be at 75% power ROP,
- A specific fuel consumption of .5 lb/HP/hour ROP
@ 75% of 210 HP, it calculates to 13 to 13.5 GPH.

If they do make 200 KTAS on this fuel burn it will be a huge achievement and it would allow 180 KTAS on 9 to 10 GPH. Such a plane would be so slippery it might actually be producing fuel in the 150 KTAS region ;)

I did not understand you "Deacons red fin" sentence and Google did not help. Can you explain please? Maybe a separate thread to avoid the drift? [ See this thread ]
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby JimP » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:20 pm

In the summer of 2013 I was considering placing a deposit on a Panthera. I asked if they have plans to offer icing protection and was told they did not at the time. I was told it may come later but not to expect it initially due to the additional certification burden that would add.
Jim
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Antoine » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:25 pm

Wow. This is not consistent with what they told me. Who did you talk to?
If they dont have de-icing planned in, it is almost a fatal mistake. It will not be easy to "add" de-ice to such curved wings and there will be other issues (airfoil disruption) that really should be addressed as part of the initial design - not in the VI version (sorry!)
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby JimP » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:00 pm

My email conversation was with Igor Perkon. He said "a propeller de-icing will be very likely offered on the experimental Panthera, we are talking right now with the producer. It will not surprise me that in 2016 I will be able to offer also something new regarding de-icing, but now is too early to talk for a full de-icing."

It does appear to be the perfect upgrade for a DA40 owner!
Jim
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby Antoine » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:00 pm

The prop manufacturer is MT and it is a trivial effort to get the de-iced prop integrated. But that does to really address the problem.

Jim, I really hope Pipistrel really grasp the concept of an IFR cross country cruiser. Their heritage is certainly different and it seems they need help... without serious de-icing (not necessarily FIKI, but at least a solid, credible set-up) the Panthera would NOT be an upgrade for this DA40 pilot... I will only give up my beloved DA40 for de-icing. The rest of the Panthera's benefits is secondary.
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Re: Has anyone already placed an order for a Panthera?

Postby JimP » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:11 pm

I agree, ice is my biggest limiting factor with my DA40. For me too, the only reason to upgrade would be for icing protection. For avoiding FAA challenges, I would prefer FIKI.
Jim
2007 DA40

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