My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4592
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1180 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
The one misgiving I have about the ElectroAir design is the plug wires. These types of wires were used for decades in the automotive industry. The insulation deteriorates over time. I've had a number of cars in which grabbing a plug wire while the engine was running would make let go in a hurry. And moisture made it worse. I had a Volvo that got very hard to start and ran poorly in rainy weather - until I changed the plug and coil wires. And a motorcycle I had would give me continuous zaps in the thigh when ridden in the rain, as the two plug wires protruded out the sides of the bike.
I currently have a 10-year-old Tacoma, a, 8-year-old Prius and a 3-year-old Yamaha FJR. Not one of them has high-voltage plug wires. Instead they use coil-over-plug setups, where each plug has its own coil. The high-voltage delivery is limited to the plug itself. This has become the common configuration in the automotive world.
Electroair requires changing out the plug wires every 1000 hours/5 years for CAW. I would definitely adhere to this, if not more frequently. FWIW, I still have the original plug wires from 2002 in my plane. Of course, they don't see nearly the electrical stress that the EA wires do.
I currently have a 10-year-old Tacoma, a, 8-year-old Prius and a 3-year-old Yamaha FJR. Not one of them has high-voltage plug wires. Instead they use coil-over-plug setups, where each plug has its own coil. The high-voltage delivery is limited to the plug itself. This has become the common configuration in the automotive world.
Electroair requires changing out the plug wires every 1000 hours/5 years for CAW. I would definitely adhere to this, if not more frequently. FWIW, I still have the original plug wires from 2002 in my plane. Of course, they don't see nearly the electrical stress that the EA wires do.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- rwtucker
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm
- First Name: Rob
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N831BA
- Airports: KFFZ KEUL
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 110 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
I've been watching too, hoping for some more options before my mags give out. What EIS did you like best that you saw at Oskhosh David?DavidS wrote: Saw a couple neat ones at oshkosh 15. Maybe they'll be out by the time I upgrade...
- rwtucker
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm
- First Name: Rob
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N831BA
- Airports: KFFZ KEUL
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 110 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
I have been following E-Mag for awhile because I like their approach, including full variable timing, redundant power sourcing, decent fail safe protection, and spark energy optimized to meet combustion requirements (some EIS greatly exceed what is necessary placing a burden on wiring and plugs). It is not clear when the 200 series is going to be certified for the IO-360 but they are beginning the process this summer. Going forward, they claim that (the) "Series 200 will be the operating platform for all FAA certified models." Following is an email from them.
If certification is, in fact, around the corner, we might expect to see the price of the 200 series double or triple as the day approaches.Rob,
We expect to start our certification program before summer. But you're more likely interested in a projection of when we'll finish our certification project - harder to predict . . . In short, we've been working for some time on a "proper" ignition solution for certified engines. As you are aware, an aviation capable product has specific and unique requirements. We've been producing electronic ignitions for over a decade, but our next release is one we've fashioned to serve six cylinder engines (new for us) as well as all future certified models. Our first Series 200 (Experimental version) will release shortly. Like all our models, it addresses the single most important issue for aircraft electronics . . . it has a built-in redundant power solution. More information will be available on our web site http://www.emagair.com
Keep watching - it's about to get exciting.
Brad Dement
E-MAG Ignitions
2014 Greg Street, Suite 112
Azle, TX 76020
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4592
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1180 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
Random thoughts:
There's a C210 Turbo in my mechanic's hangar with an ElectroAir system. There is a whole litany of things wrong with the plane, but it appears the EA is operating OK. Likely a really recent installation. One thing about it via-a-vis Brock's observation is that the 3 plug wires on each side are bundled together with zip ties. There's a thought that maybe this isn't a good idea. I do recall that automotive plug wires are typically bundled such that they stand off a bit from touching. The plug output module is nowhere near the timing position module, so no likely interference between plug wire leakage and the crankshaft position sensor.
The eMag solution does look better on paper. Self-contained, for example. But checking on the web there are some scary stories from years past about failures with previous models used in the Experimental world. These accounts are a few years old, however, so one hopes the problems are behind them. It seems that they were producing these systems without benefit of a mechanical engineer.
And the stories regarding the eMag in the experimental world do bring forth the generally understated risk of the nature of experimental. If you are the plane builder you are generally free to try anything that sounds good and see how it goes. Do you feel lucky? Well, do you?
There's a C210 Turbo in my mechanic's hangar with an ElectroAir system. There is a whole litany of things wrong with the plane, but it appears the EA is operating OK. Likely a really recent installation. One thing about it via-a-vis Brock's observation is that the 3 plug wires on each side are bundled together with zip ties. There's a thought that maybe this isn't a good idea. I do recall that automotive plug wires are typically bundled such that they stand off a bit from touching. The plug output module is nowhere near the timing position module, so no likely interference between plug wire leakage and the crankshaft position sensor.
The eMag solution does look better on paper. Self-contained, for example. But checking on the web there are some scary stories from years past about failures with previous models used in the Experimental world. These accounts are a few years old, however, so one hopes the problems are behind them. It seems that they were producing these systems without benefit of a mechanical engineer.
And the stories regarding the eMag in the experimental world do bring forth the generally understated risk of the nature of experimental. If you are the plane builder you are generally free to try anything that sounds good and see how it goes. Do you feel lucky? Well, do you?
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- waynemcc999
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 556
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:38 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N211WP
- Airports: KSBA
- Has thanked: 1502 times
- Been thanked: 399 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
I had the ElectroAir installed last week on my DA40 XLS (40.922). Initial observations after a quick 1-hour flight:
Pro: fuel economy in cruise is definitely excellent, something near 1 gph improvement (at 10,000', 8.6 gph down to 7.5 gph).
Cons:
Before the ElectroAir:
Thanks for your help,
Wayne
Pro: fuel economy in cruise is definitely excellent, something near 1 gph improvement (at 10,000', 8.6 gph down to 7.5 gph).
Cons:
- not sure we're getting full power on initial climb. I don't have concrete numbers, but I'm used to seeing 500+ fpm at 70 KIAS out of KTRK (5900'), but think we saw more like 300 fpm this past Tuesday.
- CHTs on climb out were quite high (difficult task to keep below 400 degF), even at cruise-climb airspeed (e.g. 85 KIAS)
- I'm used to getting 136-to-142 KTAS in 10K' cruise with 8.6 gph. This past Tuesday we were only seeing about 132 KTAS in this configuration.
- there was an odd roughness (but couldn't repeat) on descent at low Manifold Pressure (~10")
- seems most if not all were using Tempest Fine Wire plugs (I have Tempest massives)
- your thoughts on whether this could make a diff? What does ElectroAir specify/recommend?
- seems many had GAMI fuel injectors. Thoughts?
Before the ElectroAir:
- on climb out I held EGTs at about 1400, and would get CHTs just below 400
- on cruise, EGTs of 1500 would yield CHTs about 370
- on climb out, the EGTs were much cooler, about 1250, with CHTs being 380-to-415
- on cruise, EGTs were also much cooler, perhaps 1350, with CHTs nicely at about 370
Thanks for your help,
Wayne
-
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2043
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
- First Name: Antoine
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N121AG
- Airports: LSGG
- Has thanked: 87 times
- Been thanked: 220 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
Wayne the G1000 log files it would make the analysis absolutely factual.
They are saved to the top SD card in your MFD.
The fuel savings you see in cruise are unimpressive once you factor in the lower airspeed.
132 KTAS would cost no more than 7.5 GPH in a vanilla XLS.
I think something is wrong. At MAPs below 24 inches, you should see an improvement across the board... better climb, better cruise and lower FF.
They are saved to the top SD card in your MFD.
The fuel savings you see in cruise are unimpressive once you factor in the lower airspeed.
132 KTAS would cost no more than 7.5 GPH in a vanilla XLS.
I think something is wrong. At MAPs below 24 inches, you should see an improvement across the board... better climb, better cruise and lower FF.
- waynemcc999
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 556
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:38 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N211WP
- Airports: KSBA
- Has thanked: 1502 times
- Been thanked: 399 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
Antoine, thanks for the good points. Yes, I plan to grab the log files, hopefully tomorrow, and upload.
I also agree that the performance is not nearly as impressive as I had expected.
I also agree that the performance is not nearly as impressive as I had expected.
- BlackMammoth
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:50 pm
- First Name: Phil
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N29PG
- Airports: KPSP
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
Something isn't right.
Your TAS as well as Fuel Flow should improve. Let's start with the data and go from there...
Did you re-gap the plugs that are on the EIS?
Your TAS as well as Fuel Flow should improve. Let's start with the data and go from there...
Did you re-gap the plugs that are on the EIS?
- theRDWRER
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:03 pm
- First Name: Matt
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N981WL
- Airports:
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: My experience with the ElectroAir ignition upgrade
I may be totally wrong because I'm not an AP and I don't know much about ICEs aside from what I read on the Internet. With that being said, aren't high CHTs, low EGTs, and reduced performance indicative of the spark timing being off, which would be consistent with the introduction of the electroair.
I'm sorry if this response made y'all dumber.
I'm sorry if this response made y'all dumber.
- BRS
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:44 am
- First Name: Brock
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N8QQ
- Airports: W52
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
SOLVED
Uneven EGTs: replaced and rerouted the leads to cylinders 1 & 3.
Starting: Stopped priming with fuel pump. Just advance mixture and turn key with throttle at idle. If warm use flooded start technique. Somehow my normal starting procedure is too much fuel when using the Electro-Air.
Starting: Stopped priming with fuel pump. Just advance mixture and turn key with throttle at idle. If warm use flooded start technique. Somehow my normal starting procedure is too much fuel when using the Electro-Air.
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Fly and EAB Sportsman