C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

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thefoxx
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C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby thefoxx » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:27 am

I have recently had some issues with my engine just quitting during the roll-out after landing. Configuration is with full rich mixture and fuel pump off, until cleared the runway. Electric Fuel pump on/off it doesn't seem to matter. In cruise, it hums along just great, but it has become a habit lately that I'm not fond off and pretty unnerving.

the only thing I can think is that it might be the low-idle mixture setup? Recently, my fuel pump was changed and Diamond recommends the fuel system be setup.

Is there possibly anything else we should check, or that has been a known issue with the IO-240? (altitude compensating fuel system not in mine)

Any one else had these issues? Just when you get over one hill... another one rises from behind!

Thanks!
Arthur
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Sandy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:00 pm

When I owned my Lance, I once had the engine quit as I was rolling out after landing. It turned out to be a "stripped" (as in the threads) on the idle mixture control.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Karl » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 am

Idle mixture is a good starting point.

Also check induction manifold gaskets, they go hard, almost like carbon over time and allow air to leak into the system changing the mixture. A small leak would be more noticeable at idle and with a hot engine such as just after landing.
One sign of leaking manifold gasket is fuel staining around the joint and on the manifold.
Check all other manifold connections while the cowling is off.

Please give us some feedback and let us know how it goes.
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Derek
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Derek » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 pm

Unfortunately this is a relatively common problem with the da20 continental engine. So much so that the entire fleet was briefly grounded in Canada when the planes were first introduced. The solution was to increase idle speed. Fortunately it only seems to be a problem on roll out and does not affect the engine "that much" when the plane is in the air but obviously it should be corrected asap.

When the idle is set properly my C1 engine will quit on rollout if the fuel pump is OFF. If the fuel pump is on it is good unless the idle is set too low, as has happened after a few annuals, in which case the engine can stall on roll out even with the pump on. Both times I took the plane back to the mechanic, they increased the idle a little, and it fixed the problem.

The downside of the faster idle is the plane floats along too easily when I'm trying to land. Smaller problem than an engine that quits though!

It could have other causes, such as a weak fuel pump or other reasons, but the idle speed increase was the ultimate fix for me.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Pascal » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 pm

I have flown DA20-C1s with the Sensenich propeller (my current setup) as well as with the MT prop.

The MT propeller is apparently slightly lighter than the Sensenich, so it does not have as much inertia to keep the engine running at slow idle.

My airplaneès idle is set to 650 or 700 (canèt remember) but the the school's 1999 DA20-C1 which has an MT propeller and the idle is set to 900 RPM so that the engine does not quit. We keep the fuel pump on during the landing and taxiing phases, I only turn off the pump just before turning the engine off (and when cruising). As derek mentions, the higher RPM tends to make the airplane float more when landing, thereby increasing the length of runway I need to land. Also, at 900 RPM, the school's DA20 accelerates on the taxiway, you're always on the brakes so I guess the brakepads must be replaced more often.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Karl » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:40 am

Pascal wrote:I have flown DA20-C1s with the Sensenich propeller (my current setup) as well as with the MT prop.

The MT propeller is apparently slightly lighter than the Sensenich, so it does not have as much inertia to keep the engine running at slow idle.


We had a same problem when the Grob 115E was introduced. Light weight composite prop does not have enough flywheel effect at idle. The fix was the same, increased idle.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby thefoxx » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:35 am

Thank you everyone for your reply!

I have forwarded all your replies to my AME, and we have also spoken to Diamond.

Neil at Diamond recommended 1000RPM +/-25RPM for idle setup - so that will be the first plan of attack as I think it was set too low. Btw, I have the MT prop.

Will also get him to inspect the induction manifold gaskets as well, just to rule that out!

I'll report back once we do this and do some test flights.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Spinner » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:42 pm

I would also recommend doing the fuel set-up as listed by Continental. Wonky fuel pressures will sometimes create headaches with your mixture and idle.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby Steven » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:31 pm

I had the same problem with my DA20-C1. I also learned to put some throttle in after landing to keep the RPMs up. Eventually I had the idle increased as well.
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Re: C1 - Engine quits on roll-out after landing

Postby 1911Tex » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Immediately after you touch down, lean the mixture without moving throttle and engine will pickup enough rpm. Leaning is good!!

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