uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

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smoss
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uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby smoss » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:30 am

Has anyone flown with these $200 ADS-B in products yet? I am considering getting one prior to the required permanent out (and probably in) solution for my DA40. The Scout sounds like an awesome product and a dirt cheap price if it actually works. My only concern is that the ads state that unless you have ADS-B out on your plane, the "in" will be limited and will not include ground station transmissions. That makes absolutely no sense to me why it would need your plane to be sending out in order to get generic data in. ("Receive air-to-air traffic information from ADS-B Out equipped aircraft and rebroadcast traffic information from FAA ground towers (ADS-R / TIS-B). Note that if your aircraft is not ADS-B Out equipped, your view of traffic will be limited.") The other choice would be the Stratux ADS-B receiver for $199, which specifically states receives from other planes and ground stations, and includes AHRS and WAAS, but is a fair bit larger than the Scout. Any feedback on either of these would be appreciated.
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby blsewardjr » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:20 am

The way the FAA set ADSB up is that you can receive weather from ground stations with a portable passive ADSB IN receiver such as Scout or Stratux but for the complete traffic picture you have to a permanent ASDB OUT transmitter to "ping "the ground station for the specific traffic picture for your aircraft. Without it you receive only the transmissions from other ADSB aircraft (mainly airliners), not the additional ground transmissions. The ground transmission is important because it contains targets that are NOT ADSB equipped, which currently is still most aircraft. The quote is misleading because without the ASDB-OUT, the only time you will receive ground transmissions of traffic is in the rare case where a ground transmission triggered by a nearby ADSB OUT aircraft that is receiving the traffic picture for them. There is no difference in the traffic received by any of portable receivers that receives on both ADSB frequencies (978 and 1090). The reason the Scout is cheap is that it does not contain a battery nor does it provide GPS or AHRS like some of the more expensive devices. Be aware that the Scout only works with Foreflight. I think you have to assemble the Stratux.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby smoss » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Thanks for the explanation Bernie! The Stratux comes fully assembled for 199 now (without battery), but I guess as you explain would still have limited traffic without ADS-B out though. Is it not true though that in most areas with a tower there are always going to be multiple airplanes within range of it that are "pinging" it such that, practically speaking, even without your own pinging you will most always get a transmission? Asked differently, how far away from a tower can another plane "ping" and activate it? I assume if you are in a terminal area, like Los Angeles or Las Vegas, it would not be an issue--and only be a true limitation in remote areas that happen to have a tower and also have radar coverage.
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby RMarkSampson » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Steve,
I have ADS-B out and I will see some contacts pop up right on the 15 nm range ring using Foreflight. I am see that contact because a ground station is providing me my own traffic report having a 15nm radius from my ADS-B Out reported position. If you only have ADS-B In, you are only going to see those contacts that are being sent to other ADS-B Out aircraft. Without an ADS-B Out aircraft nearby, you will likely not see anything for traffic.

Unfortunately, ADS-B Out aircraft may or may not sense another aircraft without its own ADS-B Out - depending on radar, terrain etc. However, two ADS-B Out aircraft will "talk to each other" 100% of the time. So pilots flying with ADS-B Out become big advocates for all other aircraft to bite the bullet and get their own ADS-B solution. When I look at my ForeFlight and see the other guys tail number, I know he is another ADS-B Out guy and I silently thank him for making the leap to ADS-B Out. Both of us are 100% safer for it...
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby Rich » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:06 am

For whatever reason, there are lots of ADS-B Out aircraft that are not airliners around here. There seem to be more 1090ES than 978UATs, but both are out there. That’s why you really should get dual-band for “IN” solution. And yes, there are still lots of non ADS-B Out which requires the tower infrastructure to annunciation to me. But there are also targets that won’t show from either input so your Mark 1 canopy is the only place you’ll see these folks.
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby smoss » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:30 pm

So I purchased a Scout. Haven't had a chance to fly with it yet, but even from the ground in my car (obviously with no ADS-B out) I pretty much get continuous tower reception in Las Vegas. Obviously there is a barrage of other aircraft in the area activating the towers. The one drawback I see so far is that ForeFlight defaults to the ADS-B weather if the Scout is connected, even if there is no tower reception--such that no tower reception = no weather/radar/etc., even if you have cellular signal (which I typically do). I have emailed the Scout support to inquire if there is a way to change the default weather input, short of disconnecting the device. I am very excited to try it out in the sky! Will give an updated PIREP once I do. Absolutely amazing device for $200, compared to > $10,000!!!
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby blsewardjr » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Steve- The tower reception you're receiving in your car is probably the result of the towers sending you continuous weather information, not the result of other aircraft triggering the tower. Weather information is not dependent on ADS-B OUT triggering the tower ground station, only traffic information. Bernie
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby Colin » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:22 pm

Steve, I am pretty sure in the Las Vegas are those towers are triggered by the high number of ADS-B out planes flying into McCarran. Also, getting ADS-B out for you car will make it more fun to drive near airports.
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby smoss » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:44 pm

Bernie,
The weather only updates every several minutes (shows how old each item is), so it's got to be other planes triggering them. Makes sense, since as Colin said, there are always ADS-B planes flying into McCarran. There are also a fair number of GA planes in the area that have ADS-B out (they all show up with tail number). So I think in most large terminal areas the lack of out "limitation" is a non-issue. Obviously flying in the middle of nowhere, where there still might be a tower, but no other ADS-B planes to trigger it, this would be a real limitation. But either 1, other traffic would have ADS-B out and trigger you directly (and the tower), or 2, it would have a transponder which would show on TCAS, or 3, no transponder and no ADS-B out, and would not show up on TIS info anyways as there is typically no primary radar in remote areas and hopefully you don't run into him looking down at your iPad for all other traffic.
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Re: uAvionix Scout and Stratux ADS-B receivers

Postby blsewardjr » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:00 pm

Steve- When I first got portable ASD-B IN, I also thought as it would work as you and Collin do. However, my experience flying in close proximity to Dulles Airport (KIAD), a major airline hub, before we got ASD-B OUT several years ago was that it did not. All the GA aircraft coming into Leesburg (KJYO) just to the west where I was based are funneled into a fairly narrow area because of the national security airspace restrictions, but I never seemed to see any of them on the Ipad, even when I knew they were close by their radio calls. (I was worried about them, not the airliners.) As a result, my conclusion at the time was that without ADSB-OUT, the traffic picture was not useful. Obviously things have changed since that time as more GA aircraft have become equipped with ASDB-OUT and that may be the case where you are. However, I'm not sure it will ever be as good as having ASDB-OUT yourself, especially outside large terminal areas. My two cents. Bernie
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
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