ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

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dwurfel
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ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby dwurfel » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:42 pm

Well, starting my quest to get ADS.B compliant and am running into some troubling complications.

The shop will be installing a GTX-345R and installing a GA-35 antenna behind the existing GA-35 antennas. They are telling me that the G1000 will NOT show FIS-B weather products unless Diamond updates the software version allowed on the aircraft. Garmin has no control of the version allowed by Diamond Aircraft

They will run the TAS600 through the GTX-345R system to correlate the traffic with the ADS-B, removing control for Active traffic from the G1000 and giving it to the GTX-345.

My question here are others running into the same complication with not be able to get FIS-B weather produsts on the screen with their installations.

Any help or comments will be appreciated. :bow
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby mdieter » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:06 pm

We just upgraded to a configuration very similar to yours. I don't have a lot of hours with it yet, but we are able to switch between FIS-B and XM weather on the G1000 screen (we have a GDL 69 XM receiver). So it can be done!

https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6226&p=68576&hilit=ads+b+install#p68576
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby pietromarx » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:21 pm

Your shop is wrong on several counts. FIS from ADS-B shows up fine on the .23 version of the WAAS G1000 software. Secondly, Diamond has no control over when Garmin releases new software as Garmin has held the STC. With luck this is changing as Diamond has gotten the STC. Thirdly, they can replace the XM antenna if you have one with a dual mode one, thereby making the installation easier.
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby beetlebug » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:30 pm

You'll definitely get FIS-B, I have the GTX-345R in my 2010.

See my previous post: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5963&p=65601#p65601
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby waynemcc999 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:39 pm

I upgraded my 2008 DA40 XLS (WAAS G1000, .23 software) in autumn 2017 with the GTX345R.

Things that work quite fine (both on the G1000 and iPad/ForeFlight):
-- traffic (merged ADS-B and TAS) -- this is a BIG BIG benefit!!
-- FIS-B METARs and Precipitation (regional Nexrad)

Items not supported on the G1000 (but display just fine on the iPad/ForeFlight:
-- FIS-B TAF, AIRMET, SIGMET, PIREP, NOTAM, Winds/Temps Aloft, CONUS Nexrad

Garmin's explanation (after the fact) to my avionics shop:

"GTX345R outputs various ADS-B formats for different Garmin equipment to be able to understand. The GTN 750/650, Garmin Pilot App (PED), and ForeFlight (PED) use the newest format which allows those units to display all of the ADS-B weather information. Unfortunately, the G1000 is a bit older and is only able to receive and understand the 'GDL90' format, which is a legacy format that has limitations. Even though the GTX345R has the capability of outputting all of the information, the G1000 can only understand a limited amount of it. The weather products included in the GDL90 format is all the G1000 is capable of displaying"

"... the transponder is working correctly, the G1000 is configured correctly, but because it is a legacy GDL90 format, the G1000 will only display METARS and Regional NEXRAD for the weather products. This is a limitation of the older format that the G1000 uses."

I'm hoping (likely in vain) that there will eventually be a G1000 software update that would unleash the additional weather products. In the meantime, all weather products are indeed displayed nicely on the iPad (ForeFlight).

Best regards,
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby pietromarx » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:19 am

I have the GDL-69A and the GTX345R. While ADS-B provides a lot of the weather products (to both the G1000 and the various Garmin Pilot apps on Android and iOS), the XM weather is substantially better graphically. I actually get the FIS stuff on the iPads, etc. and the XM on the G1000.

Diamond will likely put out a new software update for the G1000 now that they hold the STC instead of Garmin and have sold the company to the Chinese, etc. I understand it is on the list. Waiting for Garmin (not Diamond) to do software releases in the past has been horrendous.
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby CFIDave » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:02 pm

For what it's worth, the GTX-345R transponder *does* provide the complete set of ADS-B In/FIS-B weather information for new DA40 NGs and DA42-VIs delivered with the G1000 NXi flight deck. This is because the G1000 NXi running GDU 20 software no longer utilizes the old Garmin GDL90 weather format; instead the G1000 NXi recognizes the GTX-345R's native format.

To my knowledge, all legacy G1000s (from non-Diamond as well as Diamond aircraft, even those running the latest GDU 15 software for legacy G1000s) accept only GDL90-formatted information from the GTX-345R. So I'm not sure that a legacy G1000 software upgrade for DA40s would change this.
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby pietromarx » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:47 pm

I am reasonably sure that a software update on the G1000 could allow it to work with all of the data available from the GTX-345 and change the format from the GDL-90 to the more current -345. Having personally installed the GTX-345R (with my A&P, of course), I can say that the difference between GDL-90 compatibility mode and the -345 is solely in software data format and software communications protocols. You can see the GDL-90 data protocol here, courtesy of the FAA: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/ad ... D_RevA.PDF and the GTX-345 installation manual here: http://joesrv12.com/Garmin/GTX%20345%20 ... 9-02_4.pdf. It is clearly marked that the software data format is selected on the GTX-345.

There may be other reasons for the G1000 to not support the full dataset from the -345, though, including things like processing speed and software memory requirements. I note that my iPad 4, for example, runs slowly and hot with Garmin Pilot trying to sort through the full data processing and visualizations and it has considerably more bandwidth and memory than the G1000.
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby CFIDave » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:29 pm

There's another difference between "legacy" G1000s vs. NXi G1000s and the way that they interface to a GTX-345R:

For legacy G1000 installations: The GTX-345R communicates traffic and weather via a pair of relatively low-speed RS-232/RS-422 serial connections to the legacy G1000's pair of GIA63W units.

For G1000 NXi installations: The GTX-345R *also* has a High Speed Data Bus (HSDB) aka Ethernet connection to the back of the MFD for passing weather information. (Another HSDB/Ethernet connection is used for GWX-70 weather radar in the nose of Diamond twins to communicate with the MFD.)

So for legacy G1000s this might mean that more than a software change would be needed for the GTX-345R to communicate natively rather than emulating a GDL90.
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Re: ADS.B Install 2012 XLS w WAAS Questions ( help!)

Postby pietromarx » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:14 pm

You're right - it may. The GDL-69/69A is also connected via 10mbps ethernet ("HSDB"). That said, the change is a trivial piece of wiring (two pin changes).

The amount of data in FIS-B isn't much, though. Some data, text, and bitmaps. Since it is being transmitted by ADS-B ground stations via a serial interface (in effect), RS-232/422 may be enough. The UAT has a bit rate of 1.041667 mbps and about 30% of the message is allocated for FIS-B data versus traffic data.

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