G1000 WAAS upgrade

Open for questions of visitors of DAN. Posts of our guests are on moderation queue.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: Rent
Airport: KBED

Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 12 times

G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby TimS » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:43 pm

The following was posted in another forum:
It is official, Garmin no longer will manufacturer the GIA63W; a required component for the WAAS upgrade of the G1000 and the GIA63 is not upgradable to WAAS


Has anyone looked into if this applies to the G1000 in Diamond planes?

Tim
User avatar
Sandy
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Sanford
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: N159PS
Airport: KPDK

Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:30 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby Sandy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 pm

I thought that the G1000 NXi uses the same LRUs that the legacy G1000 uses. If so, and Garmin is discontinuing the GIA63W, then what will the NXi use? Are you sure that it was the GIA63W, and not the GIA63, that is being discontinued? What was the source of your information, as I have not seen any official announcement from Garmin?

Sandy
User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: Rent
Airport: KBED

Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby TimS » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Sandy,

It was posted on MooneySpace by a Mooney service center who does G1000 WAAS upgrades. I copy/pasted the part numbers to be sure I had it correct.
I know Garmin does change some components due to manufacturer requirements/requests but I could not find if this applies to the Diamond.

Tim
User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: Rent
Airport: KBED

Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby TimS » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:26 pm

I just got a reply from Garmin (that was not, talk to your dealer).
Here is the reply:
Yes, this is 100% true. we worked with the OEM's who were offering this and informed them in 2016 at the end of 2017 there will be no more WAAS upgrades. we still manufacture the units however most of the OEM's will be going to the new NXi systems shortly and these GIA's will be part of this upgrade path


So basically, we need to find out if Diamond has some units on reserve. Otherwise, the upgrade path to WAAS on an older G1000 is to upgrade to NXi.

Tim
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Dave
Aircraft: DA62
Registration: N62DV
Airport: KJYO

Posts: 1399
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby CFIDave » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:50 am

This is only a guess, but here is what I think is going on:

GIA63W Production:
For other planes like King Airs, a G1000 NXi upgrade from an installed "legacy" G1000 requires replacement of only the screens (they contain the newer, much more powerful CPUs and much more memory needed to run GDU Version 20 and above). The GIA63W (x2) is used by both legacy G1000 and new G1000 NXi flight decks, so legacy GIA63Ws can be "re-used" by NXi, and the GIA63W remains in production for new aircraft.

WAAS Upgrades (GFC700):
For a WAAS upgrade to a legacy G1000 aircraft, if the plane has a GFC700 autopilot (e.g., 2007 DA40 XL aircraft), the WAAS upgrade also requires replacement of the original MFD with a different MFD that includes the "missing" VNAV button on the bezel. Since Garmin has discontinued production of legacy G1000 MFDs, they can no longer offer this particular WAAS upgrade. But newer NXi screens could potentially become available for most GFC700-equipped legacy G1000 aircraft (including DA40 XL/XLS/XLT and DA42 NG models).

WAAS Upgrades (KAP140):
I'm not sure why 2004-2006 DA40s or 2006-2008 DA42s that have KAP 140 autopilots can no longer have their GIA63 units replaced with GIA63W units to get WAAS -- since these aircraft don't need to have their MFD screens changed. Perhaps Garmin just simply decided they no longer want to support WAAS software for these older legacy G1000 models. There aren't many KAP-140 G1000 aircraft that have been upgraded to WAAS.
N62DV DA62 62.056
N42DA DA42-VI 42.N117 (sold)
N811ET DA40 XLS 40.874 (sold)
KJYO Leesburg, Virginia
User avatar
dgger
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Peter
Aircraft: DA42NG
Registration: DGGER

Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:00 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby dgger » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:05 am

CFIDave wrote:This is only a guess, but here is what I think is going on:
[...]
WAAS Upgrades (GFC700):
For a WAAS upgrade to a legacy G1000 aircraft, if the plane has a GFC700 autopilot (e.g., 2007 DA40 XL aircraft), the WAAS upgrade also requires replacement of the original MFD with a different MFD that includes the "missing" VNAV button on the bezel. Since Garmin has discontinued production of legacy G1000 MFDs, they can no longer offer this particular WAAS upgrade.

Somehow there must be another option - at least in EASA land. I am flying an NG conversion whose upgrade included the GFC700. It has subsequently been upgraded to WAAS, but does not offer offer VNAV capabilities. That button is still missing.
User avatar
Rick
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Rick
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: N171PS
Airport: KROA

Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby Rick » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm

Dave, I thought VNAV was optional. In my case, I have a 2007 DA40 with a GFC700 and WAAS but no VNAV button on my MFD. I have seen both kinds of XLs (with and without VNAV), so it seems Diamond should be able to do a WAAS upgrade with the existing G1000 hardware, VNAV or not. If they are forcing you to have VNAV now, it seems like it's only because they want to sell more hardware!
2007 DA40 XL - Roanoke, VA (KROA)
User avatar
pietromarx
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Peter
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: NZZZ
Airport: KWHP

Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby pietromarx » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:58 pm

This made me wonder about G1000 panels and I see at least four MFD variants:

1. No AP. My old non-GFC700.
2. AP without VNV or BC.
3. AP with VNV, no BC. My current 2012 XLS.
4. AP with both VNV and BC. Any DA-40 have this?

I am guessing that Garmin's bezels are the easy part of the whole thing and that they're really just having a harder time sourcing the underlying components (e.g. processor, etc.), none of which were likely meant for multi-decade product supports. When I was at Qualcomm we spent a lot of time deciding to get into automotive, for example, since the product cycles are so long and I am sure that Garmin has run into the same issues with the Intel and other chips they've been using.
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Dave
Aircraft: DA62
Registration: N62DV
Airport: KJYO

Posts: 1399
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby CFIDave » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:48 pm

The BC Back Course button on the bezel is used by GFC700 Cessnas. Diamond's are smart enough to figure out you're flying a back course if you approach the runway from the "wrong" direction and turn on NAV or APR on the GFC700 - it compensates for reverse sensing.

There's another version of the G1000 MFD for DA42 NG/-VI and DA62 aircraft that adds a YD (Yaw Damper) button for the GFC700. I've never seen a panel with YD but no VNAV button.
N62DV DA62 62.056
N42DA DA42-VI 42.N117 (sold)
N811ET DA40 XLS 40.874 (sold)
KJYO Leesburg, Virginia
User avatar
pietromarx
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Peter
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: NZZZ
Airport: KWHP

Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: G1000 WAAS upgrade

Postby pietromarx » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 pm

CFIDave wrote:The BC Back Course button on the bezel is used by GFC700 Cessnas. Diamond's are smart enough to figure out you're flying a back course if you approach the runway from the "wrong" direction and turn on NAV or APR on the GFC700 - it compensates for reverse sensing.


This brings up the question of why there are so many code bases for the G1000. Garmin is probably now supporting more than 20 completely separate code bases, each with their own features and bugs. This is a very old model of software licensing and management.

CFIDave wrote:There's another version of the G1000 MFD for DA42 NG/-VI and DA62 aircraft that adds a YD (Yaw Damper) button for the GFC700. I've never seen a panel with YD but no VNAV button.


The buttons on the bezel are likely just key-code inputs delivered via USB into the panel's computer. Since Garmin produces the bezel itself or through a manufacturing contract, they could put any buttons they want on it. This isn't why they're discontinuing the manufacturing; it is a very inexpensive part of the product's bill or materials (BOM).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests