diamondaviators.net

My theory is that since the DA40 is an all electric aircraft with a battery backup, there's something in the certification that causes a problem. I've spoken to Garmin reps at Oshkosh and sent emails to customer support but have never received an explanation. The fact that Garmin won't even let us use the G5 as a backup suggests to me that there is little chance the DA40 will ever be on the G5 AML. I suppose there's always Aspen, but now that the 10inch G3X's suggested price is the same as the latest deal on the much smaller Aspen Evolution PFD MAX (abit harder to install), I don't fancy Aspen's chances of remaining in business for the long term.

blsewardjr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:27 pm My theory is that since the DA40 is an all electric aircraft with a battery backup, there's something in the certification that causes a problem. I've spoken to Garmin reps at Oshkosh and sent emails to customer support but have never received an explanation. The fact that Garmin won't even let us use the G5 as a backup suggests to me that there is little chance the DA40 will ever be on the G5 AML. I suppose there's always Aspen, but now that the 10inch G3X's suggested price is the same as the latest deal on the much smaller Aspen Evolution PFD MAX (abit harder to install), I don't fancy Aspen's chances of remaining in business for the long term.

"All-electric" doesn't make sense, as a touted benefit of the G5 is to eliminate the need for a vacuum system, making the plane all-electric if it weren't already. "Battery-backup" for the AI circuit could easily be undone as part of the installation.
My own suspicion has been that the non-G1000 DA40's are a substantial minority of the DA40 delivered base. One can complain about not being allowed to use as backup for the G1000 units, but I don't know where you'd put it anyway, it's a larger presented face than the reduced-size instruments Diamond (and other manufacturers) provided, at least originally. There might be some integration problems with "legacy" G1000's (like software issues, dare I say) that are not present on the SG DA40's

I don't have glass-envy, per se. So it wouldn't exactly break my heart to be discouraged from the opportunity to ante up ~$20K (plus recurrent additional database costs) to install the G3X due to the various limitations.

As for the G5 HSI, it's a wait-and-see. Another possibility would be AeroVonics AV30, whose stuff is in the works. No hurry. One thing in our (the SG crowd) favor is that we have a lot in common with a large market of legacy Cessnas, Pipers, Mooneys, etc. If only we don't get ignored. I have put a bug in the AeroVonics ear and they seem receptive.

I'm not sure about the substantial minority theory since there are lots of fairly exotic, low number aircraft on the G5 AML. Plus, the DA40 SG, and only the SG, is on the G3X AML despite our low numbers. The reason I'm focused on "all electric" is that the basis of the G5 AML is the FAA's recent blanket authorization to permit replacement of VACUUM AIs with electric AI's. The only aircraft that I know of that came with OEM electric steam gauges are the early DA40 and the early Cirrus SR20 and SR22, none of which are on the AML. (Admittedly, there were vacuum gauge SR20s, but maybe Garmin didn't realize that.) The reason I'm desirous of the G5 lies more with having a shot at getting the G500 autopilot, which requires the G5, approved for the DA40 SG.

blsewardjr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:38 am I'm not sure about the substantial minority theory since there are lots of fairly exotic, low number aircraft on the G5 AML. Plus, the DA40 SG, and only the SG, is on the G3X AML despite our low numbers. The reason I'm focused on "all electric" is that the basis of the G5 AML is the FAA's recent blanket authorization to permit replacement of VACUUM AIs with electric AI's. The only aircraft that I know of that came with OEM electric steam gauges are the early DA40 and the early Cirrus SR20 and SR22, none of which are on the AML. (Admittedly, there were vacuum gauge SR20s, but maybe Garmin didn't realize that.) The reason I'm desirous of the G5 lies more with having a shot at getting the G500 autopilot, which requires the G5, approved for the DA40 SG.

The DA40 could perhaps been simply overlooked, due to a sloppy interpretation that the preponderance of G1000's was greater than it was. And the DA20 is a VFR-only aircraft. The wording of the G5 exclusion in the G3X AML is for IFR aircraft. The G3X AML would lead one to infer you could install a G5 in a DA40 that was not IFR certified (apparently such beasts do exist). Yet the DA40 is not itself on the G5 list - weird.

Nowhere in the G5 or G3X AML does it require that the aircraft be currently equipped with vacuum-driven gyros. Even models on the AML might have been previously modified to where there are no vacuum-driven gauges.

I"m no expert, and probably shouldn't even open my mouth. In my previous airplane, an experimental Arion Lightning. I had the G3X 10" dual screen panels installed. I had the autopilot, dual radios, remote transponder, AHRS, and Bluetooth. The transponder had the already compliant ADS-B in and out. An avionics friend installed the system, and I helped with most of the process.

I have to admit, moving to my 2012 DA40 G1000/GFC 700 was a step backwards. The G3X had more options, capability, and was less expensive. The ADS-B provided traffic and weather. The autopilot had the safety features that we don't and flew just as smoothly. Touch screens made using it more friendly. I absolutely loved it.

As far as the G5, not sure about being "allowed" to use it in theDA40. I do know that I've seen it installed along side the G3X in other planes. So i know it can be done.

Curt

Response received from Garmin today:

Hello ,

Thank You for contacting Garmin International. The G5 was given a certification basis by the FAA for 14 CFR Part 23 amendment 49 and earlier aircraft. Unfortunately, the DA 40 aircraft does not fit into that requirement. It has an newer certification. However, we have been working with the FAA in an attempt to raise the amendment level to cover more aircraft. If that works out, You may possible hear something later this year.

Amendment 49 (from 1996) is titled: "Systems and Equipment Rules Based on European Join Aviation Requirements".

Finally. Thanks for getting that answer. Explains why early Cirrus SR20s and 22s and Columbia 300s are not on the list.

You can use a G5 in a steam gauge da40. I have one. I have the aspen 2000 series with gpss steering and syn. vision linked to my 530W-430W and gdl 88.
The G5 is my back up and the only analog gauges is the air speed and turn coordinator. This system fit perfect takes 4.3 lbs off your panel and I now have a triple backup with the aspen panels and the G5 with all three having a 1 hour back up battery. I also have a flight stream 210 which works great

Were I to replace my AI and HSI with my current thinking (2610 + G5), I'd shed something like 8.5 lbs. of empty weight and marginally improve my forward CG situation (the CG isn't that big a deal - just sayin' definitely not a negative).

The current Aviation Consumer has an interesting article regarding overhauling iron gyro systems vs. replace with "glass". The cogent information is the cost of overhaul of the KI525 and KG102 (the most likely components to need overhaul), at $2K apiece, which sounds about right. The current price of the G5 components to replace all the KCS55A components would be less than that $4K. G5 installation as the HSI is non-trivial, but the gains would definitely make it worthwhile.

TC would lurk as my only remaining iron gyro.