Avionics upgrade

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by Rich »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:53 pm
Rich wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:24 pmAnd the VNAV function is not the same thing as in other systems. It's merely a planning tool.
I may be confusing your reference to VNAV with VNV in the GFC700. I think your reference to VNAV may be in the GNS units. For clarity to those with, or wondering about the GFC700, its VNV function is a calculated descent angle/path plotted by the Flight Director and which the AP will fly to reach the designated point at the specified altitude.
I was specifically referencing the questionable value of feeding baro data into a GNS. Though the installation guide suggests this can be done it appears to be pretty worthless.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by CFIDave »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:53 pm
Rich wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:24 pmAnd the VNAV function is not the same thing as in other systems. It's merely a planning tool.
I may be confusing your reference to VNAV with VNV in the GFC700. I think your reference to VNAV may be in the GNS units. For clarity to those with, or wondering about the GFC700, its VNV function is a calculated descent angle/path plotted by the Flight Director and which the AP will fly to reach the designated point at the specified altitude.
It's been awhile since I flew a G1000 DA40 or DA42TDI with KAP-140, but I recall that it has a G1000 VNAV function that will calculate descent angle/path, ToD and BoD points along the MFD's magenta line course, and provide a magenta chevron to show a recommended rate of descent on the PFD altitude tape. For example, I could use the G1000's Along Track Offset function for guidance to descend to pattern altitude exactly 2 miles before arriving at a destination airport. But without a GFC700, the aircraft couldn't fly such a constant angle descent automatically using the autopilot (i.e, with the GFC700's VNV button) -- you had to fly the descent manually or try and enter the appropriate descent rate (in FPM) into the KAP-140 to match the G1000's vertical guidance.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
nathanda40
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am
First Name: Nathan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: 98P
Airports: KSMO
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by nathanda40 »

blsewardjr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:51 am So after deciding not to go with the GI-275 ADI, I picked up my DA40 from Freedom Aviation today with my new Aspen 1000 EFD with Synthetic Vision. Did a limited test flight which did not reveal any issues. It took them a month but that included the holidays and the lead technician coming down with COVID. Freedom was able to put the RSM inside the wing. I lost OAT/TAS/Winds but saved several thousand dollars. They also pre-wired it for ADSB data from my GDL-88 in case I chose to purchase the unlock. I agree with Rich that it tends to stick out some, but its not that bad.
what made you decide to not go with the GI-275?
User avatar
blsewardjr
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 485
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
First Name: Bernie
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N377DS
Airports: KCHO
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by blsewardjr »

Nathan- Originally, I was only going to replace the AI, but my HSI started to fail so I needed to replace both. The prices of the Aspen EFD1000 Pro Max and Dual GI-275s were about the same. Installation for me was about the same as well because I put the RSM inside my wing instead of fabricating a new mounting on the fuselage. The Garmin certainly has a richer looking display. However, I found the presentation on the GI-275 AI and on the GI-275 HSI to be too crowded. This is true for the information presented as well as for the space for touch control. The Aspen as a single, rectangular unit has a larger screen (still small compared to a G3X 7inch, but doable) and small, but dedicated buttons, which I prefer. Also, while Garmin has made progress on this, changing from GPSS to HDG when ATC gives you a vector requires lots of button pushing on the GI-275. The Aspen requires only one single button push. Finally, the Aspen permits the pilot to turn the airspeed/altitude data on or off -- the GI-275 requires this to be done by the avionics shop. I find I like to have it off in cruise with full Synthetic Vision then turn on for the approach. I'm aware of the quality control issues with Aspen but the Garmins have not be entirely trouble free either. There have been instances of dual simultaneous failures with GI-275s. Not a great situation to be in if you got rid of all your mechanical instruments. I kept my mechanical AI as a backup even though no longer required for the Aspen (if you also keep your other mechanical instruments.) My two cents, your mileage may vary.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
User avatar
nathanda40
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am
First Name: Nathan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: 98P
Airports: KSMO
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by nathanda40 »

blsewardjr wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:23 pm Nathan- Originally, I was only going to replace the AI, but my HSI started to fail so I needed to replace both. The prices of the Aspen EFD1000 Pro Max and Dual GI-275s were about the same. Installation for me was about the same as well because I put the RSM inside my wing instead of fabricating a new mounting on the fuselage. The Garmin certainly has a richer looking display. However, I found the presentation on the GI-275 AI and on the GI-275 HSI to be too crowded. This is true for the information presented as well as for the space for touch control. The Aspen as a single, rectangular unit has a larger screen (still small compared to a G3X 7inch, but doable) and small, but dedicated buttons, which I prefer. Also, while Garmin has made progress on this, changing from GPSS to HDG when ATC gives you a vector requires lots of button pushing on the GI-275. The Aspen requires only one single button push. Finally, the Aspen permits the pilot to turn the airspeed/altitude data on or off -- the GI-275 requires this to be done by the avionics shop. I find I like to have it off in cruise with full Synthetic Vision then turn on for the approach. I'm aware of the quality control issues with Aspen but the Garmins have not be entirely trouble free either. There have been instances of dual simultaneous failures with GI-275s. Not a great situation to be in if you got rid of all your mechanical instruments. I kept my mechanical AI as a backup even though no longer required for the Aspen (if you also keep your other mechanical instruments.) My two cents, your mileage may vary.
appreciate the info. if i may ask, how expensive was the installation? we are considering putting one gi-275 in our aircraft as it will also give us GPSS
User avatar
blsewardjr
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 485
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
First Name: Bernie
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N377DS
Airports: KCHO
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 146 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by blsewardjr »

My installation was for the Aspen EFD1000 Pro Max. The Aspen came with Synthetic Vision, but I did not purchase either the AOA or the "hazards" (ADSB WX and TX) unlock. I did, however, have it pre-wired to the GDL-88 so that I could buy and use the hazards unlock later if I wanted without further wiring. The RSM is inside the wing, which saved around $3K but cost me the wind/TAS data. I also purchased the $800 two-year warranty extension. All in the price was $14.4K.

When I was considering a SINGLE GI-275 I was never able to get a straight answer as to whether the AI/AP version would give me GPSS or whether I also had to have a second GI-275 HSI/AP version. Since I had to switch to two GI-275s or the Aspen, the question became moot.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
User avatar
nathanda40
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am
First Name: Nathan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: 98P
Airports: KSMO
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by nathanda40 »

blsewardjr wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:45 pm My installation was for the Aspen EFD1000 Pro Max. The Aspen came with Synthetic Vision, but I did not purchase either the AOA or the "hazards" (ADSB WX and TX) unlock. I did, however, have it pre-wired to the GDL-88 so that I could buy and use the hazards unlock later if I wanted without further wiring. The RSM is inside the wing, which saved around $3K but cost me the wind/TAS data. I also purchased the $800 two-year warranty extension. All in the price was $14.4K.

When I was considering a SINGLE GI-275 I was never able to get a straight answer as to whether the AI/AP version would give me GPSS or whether I also had to have a second GI-275 HSI/AP version. Since I had to switch to two GI-275s or the Aspen, the question became moot.
yeah, i think our plan was to do one GI-275 for the HSI and keep our AI as I believe that is what gives GPSS. will look into the Aspen, but think our club is a bit more partial to Garmin products. thanks for the info
User avatar
Derek
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:07 am
First Name: Derek
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: CGPDN
Airports: CYTZ
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by Derek »

Does anyone have a suggestion on an inexpensive ADSB installation? Something that works with ForeFlight would be ideal. I have a 2003 with gns530 and 430 and kap140, non waas unfortunately. Would be nice to get waas too but looks like that ship sailed.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by Rich »

Derek wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:05 pm Does anyone have a suggestion on an inexpensive ADSB installation? Something that works with ForeFlight would be ideal. I have a 2003 with gns530 and 430 and kap140, non waas unfortunately. Would be nice to get waas too but looks like that ship sailed.
Where is Canada these days with the diversity requirement? It's been kind of quiet. I don't know if "inexpensive" is going to be what you can do. You're looking at a transponder swap with its own WAAS input, at least. (The uAvionics thingees are all 978 UAT, which is US-only.)

A GTX345 will give you in/out and work with FF, but the Garmin site indicates you can't get it with both built-in GPS and diversity
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Avionics upgrade

Post by Rich »

Rich wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:03 pm
Derek wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:05 pm Does anyone have a suggestion on an inexpensive ADSB installation? Something that works with ForeFlight would be ideal. I have a 2003 with gns530 and 430 and kap140, non waas unfortunately. Would be nice to get waas too but looks like that ship sailed.
Where is Canada these days with the diversity requirement? It's been kind of quiet. I don't know if "inexpensive" is going to be what you can do. You're looking at a transponder swap with its own WAAS input, at least. (The uAvionics thingees are all 978 UAT, which is US-only.)

A GTX345 will give you in/out and work with FF, but the Garmin site indicates you can't get it with both built-in GPS and diversity
A GTX 335 (ADS-B out) + a Stratus 3 (ADS-B in) works fine. Several AMU cheaper approach than the 345.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
Post Reply