DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Any DA50 related topics.

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ememic99
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by ememic99 »

mfdutra wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 pm If I had the bucks to fly behind a PT-6, I wouldn't even think twice. That thing is rock-solid.
Anyone who orders DA62 has sufficient funds to fly behind PT6.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by CFIDave »

ememic99 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:02 pm
mfdutra wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 pm If I had the bucks to fly behind a PT-6, I wouldn't even think twice. That thing is rock-solid.
Anyone who orders DA62 has sufficient funds to fly behind PT6.
If you purchase a used turbine twin (e.g., King Air) or older turbine single (e.g., TBM) that costs less than a new DA62, the greater maintenance, fuel costs, and insurance will eat you alive. And that assumes you can even get insured these days (at any price) with no previous turbine experience, due to the recent "hardening" of the insurance market.

And some us don't want to have to do all our flying in the flight levels as is required with most PT6 aircraft.
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ememic99
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by ememic99 »

It’s all about the mission. If one can afford to invest $1.5M for a piston twin with 1800 TBO, I guess difference in yearly maintenance of similarly priced used SET (with 2500 TBO or more) shouldn’t be a problem.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by Ed McDonald »

An overhaul of a PT6 costs about $350K USD. If you buy a new aircraft with a fresh engine, that is amortized over 3400 hours, or about $100 hour engine reserve.
Buy a used aircraft and yes the capital cost is less but that $350K bill is sometime in your future. The price of the aircraft reflects the time left on the engine but that is a big, big expense.
I did the analysis of a TBM or Meridian (both used and about the same cost as a new DA62) and concluded that the financial risks (unexpected engine overhaul, etc.) and known costs (an overhaul at TBO) just weren't worth it to say nothing of the higher fuel costs, etc. The DA62 for what I do with an aircraft fit the bill perfectly. I can't wait to get mine - it was supposed to be coming out of the factory July 21st but that has been delayed.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by mfdutra »

ememic99 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:02 pm Anyone who orders DA62 has sufficient funds to fly behind PT6.
I disagree. Cost of acquisition is just parked money. The real cost of owning an airplane is depreciation, operation, maintenance, insurance, etc. Anything turbine will cost much more.

And comparing new vs used is unfair. I can buy a twin jet for less than a new DA62. I can buy new motors for the DA62 for a fraction of the cost of a turbine overhaul.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by MackAttack »

As the owner and operator of an M600, most Part 91 owners do not pay for an overhaul at TBO when it comes due. They basically just get a hot section (at least that's true for the Meridian owners/operators I know). Part 135 operations are different, but that reserve cost is baked into the charter rate. The PT6-42 variant in my M600 costs about $275k plus/minus to overhaul, depending on the accessories, and there is a used engine market that is also available. In short, most Part 91 owners don't really worry about overhaul in a turbine single, unless the manufacturer requires an overhaul at TBO. There are PT6-42s out there in industrial applications that have operated for over 20,000 hours without an overhaul. Certainly a hot section can reveal issues, but that's why Pratt sells very few engine programs to turbine single owners, unlike twin turbojet owners who (for the most part) opt for the engine programs to cover that cost.

Maintenance on a pressurized, turbine single is considerably more than maintenance on any piston, twin or single. Annuals are significantly more expensive and parts are also. There are just most systems to manage in these aircraft. Pressurization and the flight levels are awesome, but you do pay a premium to swim in that end of the pool.

I could have bought a used CitationJet or Citation Mustang for the price of my DA62 but I concluded that, at my age (early 60s), the 62 was a plane that I could fly for another decade at least (health permitting), whether on a medical or BasicMed, for a relatively low annual cost. 2/3 the speed of my M600, probably 1/3 the annual cost (at least initially) and twice the flying fun (even though I really like flying the 600, the 62 is much more fun to fly).

Just my two cents and everyone's situation is different ...
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by ememic99 »

Again, it’s all about the mission and what you like in flying. I fly DA42 because it fits my mission. But if my mission was different and I could afford SET, I would go in that direction.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by Colin »

A friend had a C210 and wanted to step up. He did a LOT of research. He's an engineer. A TBM 700 was what he arrived at, but when he tried to get insurance it just wasn't possible. So he's in an M600 (or whatever the older, used version of that would be), getting the PT6 time and in a couple years he'll get the TBM.

My brother can beat him (or come *really* close) FHR – BFI because it now takes our friend so long to get in the air.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by ememic99 »

TBM and PA46 turbine in Europe are the sane regarding the insurance.
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Re: DA50 RG VS SR 22 GTS G3+

Post by neema »

Just so folks are eyes wide open on Austro powered, twin Diamond ownership: our average maintenance bills have been over $30,000 per year for 6 years and 1300 hours of ownership. Most of the cost is attributed to engines. This is doing oil changes on our own, buying as many parts ourselves to save on costs (K&N filters, backup/standby batteries, etc.). We even handled mailing out our o2 bottles for hydrostat to save $1000 and found our own painter to save $1500-2k on the black epoxy engine paint. Typically no squawk goes unaddressed.

I've also been flying a King Air 350 lately. Last couple years of maintenance haven't cost much more than our 42. Around $40k per year.

A Diamond buys you a very simple, easy plane to fly. The maintenance is eye-watering, for what the plane is.

A friend bought a DA62 recently. It's prebuy came back over $60k (20k+ in ugly prop OHs alone).

Not all legacy airplanes are created equally. Take a 300k MU2 for example. That's $50k+ saved in the first few years in interest alone compared to a $1.5m DA62. It's done depreciating at this point. That buys 12,500 gallons of $4 fuel alone, or about 178 hours of flying. Or it pays for maintenance. Or training.
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