Would you buy another DA XX?

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Rich
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Rich »

Boatguy wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:50 am
Rich wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:49 pm LP approaches are WAAS approaches and I get vertical guidance for LPV, LP and LNAV.
Not according to the FAA.

LPV and LNAV/VNAV have vertical guidance. LP and LNAV do not.

You may be getting Garmin's synthetic vertical guidance as in LNAV+V, but that is not TERPS compliant FAA verified vertical guidance; that's Garmin's wishful / "advisory" vertical guidance which lays a 3˚ glide slope on an LNAV approach.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... 122012.pdf
I know, but it is allowed and it works. And one is still subject to the non-LPV minimums. No such case I’ve audited causes a bust of the step downs, which are easily monitored in FF.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by MackAttack »

I recently ordered my first Diamond (DA62), which will be delivered 3Q22, assuming things go as planned. At least as far as DA62s go, Diamond’s order book is full until 2Q or 3Q 2023, if you ordered one now. So the company is under literally zero pressure to make changes in how they approach avionics upgrades. However, I do expect with the current 1000NXi being delivered in new airplanes that owners will be able to make upgrades more easily than has been the case with legacy versions. It’s much simpler for Diamond to certify upgrades/feature additions off a common platform than to do it on a variety of older platforms. However, that pathway does leave legacy owners in the cold and is a real customer service and loyalty issue.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by ememic99 »

MackAttack wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:20 pm
However, I do expect with the current 1000NXi being delivered in new airplanes that owners will be able to make upgrades more easily than has been the case with legacy versions.
We were under same impression 15 years ago comparing G1000 equipped aircrafts to ones with steam gauges.

You’ll be able to make upgrades as long as Diamond is interested in certifying new features. However, even your brand new DA62 will be two major software releases behind Cirrus.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by rwtucker »

It is a great education to read all of these insightful comments and at the same time a little weird to find myself agreeing with all sides. If I flew more IFR in my DA40 (my wife doesn't like flying in the clouds), I would weigh the factors differently, especially Diamond's blatant disregard for the legacy customers who got them where they are today. It was that way long before China came into the picture. As it is, I could fly the majority of my missions with the emergency gauges, and maybe not even those. For those missions I have the best engineered and assembled ("crafted" is more fitting), lowest maintenance, safest, and most fuel efficient small GA aircraft I have ever flown. More than that, it is offers the best view outside the cockpit and is the most fun to fly. Speaking to Diamond's customer disregard, there is precedent for this to be a business opportunity for a new company. It might require cooperation on Diamond's part but could strengthen their position in the market.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by MackAttack »

You may be right but I do think things have changed somewhat at Diamond in the last couple years. At least they are offering avionics upgrades for some aircraft at some price. Cirrus has yet to do that for its legacy G1000 aircraft, for example, despite their vaunted customer service (and it is good - I owned a Cirrus for a while and thought the support was great). None of these companies are perfect … if you visit any type forum, you’ll see bitching about one thing or another (sometimes much more than one thing). So in the end, you pick the horse you want to ride and go with it.

Right now, I’m wondering what kind of nose art I will put on my 62 when it arrives … 😎
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Ed McDonald
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Ed McDonald »

Boatguy wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:50 am
Rich wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:49 pm LP approaches are WAAS approaches and I get vertical guidance for LPV, LP and LNAV.
Not according to the FAA.

LPV and LNAV/VNAV have vertical guidance. LP and LNAV do not.

You may be getting Garmin's synthetic vertical guidance as in LNAV+V, but that is not TERPS compliant FAA verified vertical guidance; that's Garmin's wishful / "advisory" vertical guidance which lays a 3˚ glide slope on an LNAV approach.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... 122012.pdf
See the following link for some commentary on this issue viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8129
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by CFIDave »

Boatguy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:28 pmDiamond has made it clear they are only willing to spend money on certifying avionics for new planes and even at that, their new planes lag by 3-4 years the features in the same avionics hardware (i.e., NXi) in new Cirrus, Textron and Beechcraft airplanes.
Case in point, my DA62 with G1000 NXi is 4 and a half years old, and I *STILL* don't have Visual Approaches, SurfaceWatch, WireAware, NEXRAD weather animation, and many other features THAT HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN NON-DIAMOND NXi (Cirrus, Piper, Beech, Cessna) more than 4 years ago! These features were promised in Diamond's NXi Phase 3 Update that was supposed to have become available more than 6 months ago. (I had to "hack" my G1000 NXi to turn on 3D Audio, because Diamond chose not to implement it yet.)

For the first 3 years of ownership (until last year), I couldn't even have ADS-B IN weather and traffic, or FlightStream 510 wireless support -- features that all the other airframe manufacturers have always provided with G1000 NXi.
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Rich
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Rich »

There were several avionics upgrades that came to be desirable/necessary over the 19-1/2 years I’ve had the plane that didn’t involve Diamond at all:

You can dismiss WAAS if you want, but it didn’t involve Diamond at all (though one part of the original setup made it easier) and was (in airplane terms) cheap ($3600) and easy (1 week turnaround by Garmin and a couple of days to get installation done. Over the years various system software updates were done. Sometimes adding unnecessary (for me) capabilities, but always easy and minimal/no cost.

Then came ADS-B which was also easy due to already having WAAS navigators.

FS210 installation. GNS units supported. The only difficulty was the original FS210 unit was defective and was replaced under warranty. This means GPS feed to FF is a certified WAAS source, by the way.

406 MHz with GPS feed from GNS.

These are the same kind of upgrade paradigm the industry basically followed for many decades. Upgrades of all types were mostly provided by 3rd parties, with little or no OEM participation. But the issue is not just wanting cool upgrades. For example, GNS units are basically EOL, but still supported due to an enormous installed base. Given FF I have no need to replace them, but eventually they will need to be due to being fully obsolete. Should I choose to there are two fairly easy upgrades I could follow, entirely at my discretion and available today.

T\I feel like the best path for Diamond to follow for the G1000 path is to somehow somehow adjust the certification to allow 3rd party (Garmin) support for legacy aircraft.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by ememic99 »

Rich wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:13 pm T\I feel like the best path for Diamond to follow for the G1000 path is to somehow somehow adjust the certification to allow 3rd party (Garmin) support for legacy aircraft.
DAI doesn’t want to give up their intellectual property, so nobody can do anything at the moment. Stripping off G1000 totally and replacing it with e.g. G500 and TXi is even harder.
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Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by rwtucker »

I don't want to cross-topic but a few comments here made me think there was some progress between Diamond and Garmin in adding ADS-B to DA40 G1000 WAAS aircraft (my adding: ideally so traffic shows up along with TCAS on the MFD). I have been away for awhile and looking for the best available solution as of late 2021. Is there a discussion I can search for?

Thanks!
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