I'd definitely gotten "please reduce to slowest practical speed, Cessna 152 on final ahead of you" before. This usually happens when the approach or tower controller sees me inbound in a DA40 ten or fifteen miles out or so, doing 120kts, and clears me to descend inbound. At this point I either gain a ton of speed going downhill or at least don't slow down, and interfere with their attempt to squeeze in some lower-speed airplane that was in the pattern. They certainly don't expect that 120kts to turn into 140kts, which can easily happen with our slippery beasts.
Current IFR rating?
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- haykinson
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:32 am
- First Name: ilya
- Aircraft Type: DA40NG
- Aircraft Registration: N724LA
- Airports: KSMO
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 48 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
- gyro3816
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:25 pm
- First Name: Adam
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N886KC
- Airports: KPTK
- Has thanked: 10 times
- Been thanked: 80 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
DA40 XLS G1000/WAAS/GFC700.
I have my instrument rating.
I sold my first da40 (non-waas g1000 kap140) in Jan’21. The GFC700 combined with WAAS is a total game changer (i found kap servos garbage and analog system unreliable). Also troubling there is no STC upgrade path for KAP owners and parts are getting harder to find.
I upgraded my entire airplane (3yr newer w carbon fiber XLS trim, less tach, TCAS,TAWS, SVT, EPedals, GFC and WAAS) for less than half the factory upgrade cost and absolutely no wait vs factory retrofit option.
I have my instrument rating.
I sold my first da40 (non-waas g1000 kap140) in Jan’21. The GFC700 combined with WAAS is a total game changer (i found kap servos garbage and analog system unreliable). Also troubling there is no STC upgrade path for KAP owners and parts are getting harder to find.
I upgraded my entire airplane (3yr newer w carbon fiber XLS trim, less tach, TCAS,TAWS, SVT, EPedals, GFC and WAAS) for less than half the factory upgrade cost and absolutely no wait vs factory retrofit option.
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1186 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
Actually there are upgrade paths for KAP 140 owners - if it isn't in a Diamond. It's not the AP, it's the small market for the airframe. In coming up on 20 years I find little to complain about.
I got my IR in Feb 1974 in a marginally equipped (even for its time) Cherokee 140. There are numerous ways in which today's environment and equipment make it a far less stressful endeavor to be in the system. In the old days there were all sorts of constant distractions to your instrument scan, producing never ending busy-work for your hands, eyes and brain that are now either much simpler or gone entirely. This was especially problematic in the absence of an autopilot of any kind. Even regulations are less onerous for things like attaining the rating and staying current.
There are, however, "old-school" instructors that are bound and determined to grind you to a pulp in training, since that's what they had to go through.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- dmloftus
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 465
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 3:38 pm
- First Name: David
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N868US
- Airports: KLZU
- Has thanked: 215 times
- Been thanked: 255 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
How many of you actually fly 6 legal procedures and holds every 6 months for currency? And how many pilots go to the effort of still flying under the hood with a safety pilot? I find myself in actual IMC maybe once or twice every 6 months. While I fly in the system frequently for Angel Flight missions, and usually request an actual approach from ATC, usually it’s rare to be in IMC at the FAF so I can’t usually count those for currency. Since the regs (61.51g) changed, I usually fill out my approach quota every six months on a nice Diamond ATD simulator at Dragonfly flight school at KWDR. And I have my own setup at home with yoke, stick, throttle quadrant, and rudder pedals just to keep up the reps.If you know how to set them up correctly, I actually find the simulators really good to keep up the skills. I used to use X-Plane 11, but recently switched to MSFS2020 (once Working Title came out with a decent beta for G1000). Definitely a case of use it or lose it!
Last edited by dmloftus on Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
- dmloftus
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 465
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 3:38 pm
- First Name: David
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N868US
- Airports: KLZU
- Has thanked: 215 times
- Been thanked: 255 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
Btw, I found this FLYING article helpful
The regulations say you must perform six instrument approaches in the preceding six calendar months, under actual or simulated conditions, to maintain your instrument currency.
But the regs never spell out what that really means. Do the approaches that are flown in actual conditions have to be to minimums? What about simulated approaches under the hood?
Many pilots make up their own interpretations of what the regs mean, but the only one that matters is the FAA’s definition. The agency issued a legal opinion over 20 years ago on this point, and followed up recently with a more specific legal interpretation. Here’s the deal, spelled out in this FAA InFO letter issued last month.
When flying in simulated conditions under the hood, you must continue under the hood all the way to DA or MDH for the approach to count for currency. When flying in actual conditions, you must be in IMC when you start the approach and remain in IMC until passing the Final Approach Fix for the approach to count. If you break out into the clear at any point after the FAF but before DH or MDH, the approach counts.
It’s important to note, however, that you must fly all segments of the IAP except the missed approach for the procedure to count. While the FAA “recommends” pilots fly the missed approach procedure, it’s not a requirement for currency.
The regulations say you must perform six instrument approaches in the preceding six calendar months, under actual or simulated conditions, to maintain your instrument currency.
But the regs never spell out what that really means. Do the approaches that are flown in actual conditions have to be to minimums? What about simulated approaches under the hood?
Many pilots make up their own interpretations of what the regs mean, but the only one that matters is the FAA’s definition. The agency issued a legal opinion over 20 years ago on this point, and followed up recently with a more specific legal interpretation. Here’s the deal, spelled out in this FAA InFO letter issued last month.
When flying in simulated conditions under the hood, you must continue under the hood all the way to DA or MDH for the approach to count for currency. When flying in actual conditions, you must be in IMC when you start the approach and remain in IMC until passing the Final Approach Fix for the approach to count. If you break out into the clear at any point after the FAF but before DH or MDH, the approach counts.
It’s important to note, however, that you must fly all segments of the IAP except the missed approach for the procedure to count. While the FAA “recommends” pilots fly the missed approach procedure, it’s not a requirement for currency.
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1186 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
My approach to currency is to take care of the formality of the 6 approaches with a safety pilot and foggles (to minimums), hand flying almost exclusively. Sometimes involving ATC, sometimes not. Sometimes flying the missed, sometimes not. But in addition I will fly various procedures that don’t count toward currency to try out different methods for managing the process and various tricks such as capturing GS from above. I’m also fine-tuning the use of AP for flying the missed.
For all this I use my plane. There is no approved simulator available to me (or that I’ve even heard of) that replicates my in-flight environment. It’s also important to stay on top of quirks in my equipment combination. For example there are the limitations on synching certain RNAV approaches between ForeFlight and the GNS navigators. The downside is I’m limited in what I can do on a given day due to weather, traffic and what options for approaches are nearby.
For all this I use my plane. There is no approved simulator available to me (or that I’ve even heard of) that replicates my in-flight environment. It’s also important to stay on top of quirks in my equipment combination. For example there are the limitations on synching certain RNAV approaches between ForeFlight and the GNS navigators. The downside is I’m limited in what I can do on a given day due to weather, traffic and what options for approaches are nearby.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- midlifeflyer
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N226PA
- Airports: KTTA
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
I don't own but I fly and teach in a 2005 (G1000/KAP 140) and 2014 (G1000/GFC 700) DA40.
Yes, my instrument rating (and CFII) are both current.
Yes, my instrument rating (and CFII) are both current.
- midlifeflyer
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N226PA
- Airports: KTTA
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
I do. Actual when weather and schedule cooperate. Safety pilot periodically. Training device to take of a lot of the "check the box" slack but I always choose approaches to places I have not been to.
I don't spend as much time with a safety pilot as I used to. Before I moved away, my friend Chris and I got together about once a month after work to fly a few approaches each followed by dinner and a beer. It was a great arrangement for both of us, especially when I started working in my CFII. I miss the fun.
I add in a periodic IPC for the evaluation value.
- mhoran
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:56 pm
- First Name: Matt
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N269RB
- Airports: KLDJ
- Has thanked: 121 times
- Been thanked: 244 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
The Flying article leaves out some important footnotes from the InFO notice that are particularly important in congested airspace.dmloftus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:27 am Btw, I found this FLYING article helpful
When flying in simulated conditions under the hood, you must continue under the hood all the way to DA or MDH for the approach to count for currency. When flying in actual conditions, you must be in IMC when you start the approach and remain in IMC until passing the Final Approach Fix for the approach to count. If you break out into the clear at any point after the FAF but before DH or MDH, the approach counts.
It’s important to note, however, that you must fly all segments of the IAP except the missed approach for the procedure to count. While the FAA “recommends” pilots fly the missed approach procedure, it’s not a requirement for currency.
Regarding the FAF segment: "During simulated instrument flight in an aircraft, it may be necessary to deviate from the final approach segment for safety reasons (e.g., in order to avoid traffic or other hazards). In these cases, the pilot may still log the IAP, provided the aircraft has passed the final approach fix (FAF)."
When flying simulated approaches with a safety pilot we typically descend no lower than traffic pattern altitude unless it can be determined that there is absolutely no other traffic operating in the area.
Regarding flying all segments of the IAP, the entire note is as follows: "Except when being radar vectored to the final approach course, or otherwise directed through an appropriate air traffic control (ATC) clearance to a specific IAP, pilots must execute the entire IAP commencing at an initial approach fix or associated feeder route and fly the initial segment, the intermediate segment, and the final segment of an IAP [AIM 5-4-7 (e)]. If the pilot completes these segments, or receives vectors to the final approach course, he or she may log the IAP."
And the relevant footnote: "A safety pilot, authorized flight instructor or designee may simulate ATC radar vectoring."
Here is the InFO notice: https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviatio ... O15012.pdf.
When I got my instrument rating, my DPE recommended to schedule time with a safety pilot to each log two approaches every month. This makes it very easy to catch up on a lost month and keep currency. We haven't always gotten our two approaches every month, but we've stayed current for three years. I've used an ATD as well, and found that it was a fair substitute for my G1000 equipped DA40 (except that it simulated WAAS which I didn't have at the time.) I always prefer to fly simulated approaches in my plane over a simulator, though.
- CFIDave
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2681
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N333GX
- Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
- Has thanked: 233 times
- Been thanked: 1480 times
Re: Current IFR rating?
Unless you have a professional flying job (where you "must go" almost regardless of weather), it's unusual to log 6 actual approaches in IMC every 6 months.
So to maintain instrument currency, most GA pilots have to rely on periodic flying with a safety pilot and view-limiting device, or (even better) get with their CFI for an IPC.
For maintaining currency I'm fortunate to be married to a safety pilot (and so is she ). But our DA62 insurance requires each of us to participate in an IPC with a CFI at least annually.
So to maintain instrument currency, most GA pilots have to rely on periodic flying with a safety pilot and view-limiting device, or (even better) get with their CFI for an IPC.
For maintaining currency I'm fortunate to be married to a safety pilot (and so is she ). But our DA62 insurance requires each of us to participate in an IPC with a CFI at least annually.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI