Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

Post Reply
timonick
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:03 pm
First Name: Timo
Aircraft Type: DA40D
Aircraft Registration: DEWAQ
Airports: EDKA
Been thanked: 2 times

Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by timonick »

Good evening.

I'm new in this Forum and I have a Question for the AP of my DA40. Sometimes I fly longer Ways (2h+) at the moment I fly this Way over HDG what is really stressful because if I get pushed away because of wind or something I need to correct the HDG by a few Degrees all time. The Problem is I have the Kap140 AP and the Garmin GNS430 and when I fly over Dct to an Airport and Press NAV my Course isn't right. He drifts really hard to an other Course. When my Airport is on South/East the Plane isn't fly the Way, it's flying North/East. On The Message in the Garmin there is a Msg (Set Course to 180 e.g. When I press NAV when I'm on the Line he's Turning Right on another Course. I'm a new Pilot, I have my License 6 Month and I fly this plane since 1 Month. Am I wrong? I hope you understand my Problem.

Thanks in advance.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by Rich »

It follows the course on the HSI. You have to set the course on the HSI. Also, is the 430 in GPS mode?
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
timonick
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:03 pm
First Name: Timo
Aircraft Type: DA40D
Aircraft Registration: DEWAQ
Airports: EDKA
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by timonick »

Rich wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:07 pm It follows the course on the HSI. You have to set the course on the HSI. Also, is the 430 in GPS mode?
Yes HDG works when i set the Course on Heading Indicator. What do you mean with 430 in Gps mode? I only Pressed Direct to Button, then i give him the ICAO Code from the Airport that the Track is markes on the "map" and then i press NAV on the Kap140. Did i need to activate Gps on the 430 Again? not sure he focus the VOR or something.
User avatar
nathanda40
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:23 am
First Name: Nathan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: 98P
Airports: KSMO
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by nathanda40 »

timonick wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:40 pm
Rich wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:07 pm It follows the course on the HSI. You have to set the course on the HSI. Also, is the 430 in GPS mode?
Yes HDG works when i set the Course on Heading Indicator. What do you mean with 430 in Gps mode? I only Pressed Direct to Button, then i give him the ICAO Code from the Airport that the Track is markes on the "map" and then i press NAV on the Kap140. Did i need to activate Gps on the 430 Again? not sure he focus the VOR or something.
the 430 has two output modes. GPS and VLOC. GPS mode will output the GPS navigation information to your HSI. VLOC mode will output to the HSI the information from your NAV radio

on either one you need to set the HSI to your desired course. the 430 will tell you "DTK" for "desired track" and you need to set your HSI to exactly that. then the KAP140 will follow that course as best as it can

Image
timonick
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:03 pm
First Name: Timo
Aircraft Type: DA40D
Aircraft Registration: DEWAQ
Airports: EDKA
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by timonick »

nathanda40 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:23 pm
timonick wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:40 pm
Rich wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:07 pm It follows the course on the HSI. You have to set the course on the HSI. Also, is the 430 in GPS mode?
Yes HDG works when i set the Course on Heading Indicator. What do you mean with 430 in Gps mode? I only Pressed Direct to Button, then i give him the ICAO Code from the Airport that the Track is markes on the "map" and then i press NAV on the Kap140. Did i need to activate Gps on the 430 Again? not sure he focus the VOR or something.
the 430 has two output modes. GPS and VLOC. GPS mode will output the GPS navigation information to your HSI. VLOC mode will output to the HSI the information from your NAV radio

on either one you need to set the HSI to your desired course. the 430 will tell you "DTK" for "desired track" and you need to set your HSI to exactly that. then the KAP140 will follow that course as best as it can

Image
so i need to set the heading bug manually still when im in NAV mode (GPS/VLOC)? Because you wrote it sends to the HSI
User avatar
DaveS1900
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 1:09 am
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N521DD
Airports: I74 Urbana Ohio
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by DaveS1900 »

Nathan,
There should be an autopilot manual in your airplane, if not you can search on the web. Or you can hire a CFI with KAP140 experience to fly and hour with you. Rich did a good job explaining but here is my go at it.

HDG mode: Autopilot turns to and follows the heading bug on the HSI. Nothing else to set.

NAV mode: Autopilot turns immediately to the Yellow pointer (arrow) on the HSI. Once it turns to the yellow point it slowly adds a wind correction to keep the yellow course deviation line centered. You choose which ever output you want coming from the GPS. You either have GPS output or VOR output. Rich showed you how to push the button on the GPS to toggle between them. That signal goes to the HSI for the yellow course indicator which runs the autopilot.

Dave S.
Irwin Ohio.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by Rich »

timonick wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:31 pm
nathanda40 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:23 pm
timonick wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:40 pm

Yes HDG works when i set the Course on Heading Indicator. What do you mean with 430 in Gps mode? I only Pressed Direct to Button, then i give him the ICAO Code from the Airport that the Track is markes on the "map" and then i press NAV on the Kap140. Did i need to activate Gps on the 430 Again? not sure he focus the VOR or something.
the 430 has two output modes. GPS and VLOC. GPS mode will output the GPS navigation information to your HSI. VLOC mode will output to the HSI the information from your NAV radio

on either one you need to set the HSI to your desired course. the 430 will tell you "DTK" for "desired track" and you need to set your HSI to exactly that. then the KAP140 will follow that course as best as it can

Image
so i need to set the heading bug manually still when im in NAV mode (GPS/VLOC)? Because you wrote it sends to the HSI
We now know this aircraft does not have an HSI, but a conventional Gyrocompass and a separate CDI. These are old-school primitive. Absent malfunctions, this is the standard way this stuff behaves:

When the AP is in HDG mode it will hold the heading you select in the gyrocompass.

When the AP is in NAV mode it gets more complicated. Mostly it requires that you are tracking something set in the 430, such as to a VOR or waypoint or along a part of a flight plan. Given that, normally these will navigate the course you select in the CDI, whether VLOC or GPS. The 430 will tell you what to set it to, but won't automatically set it. However, with the 430, it's possible it will fly the required course irrespective of the position of the CDI compass rose. My original KCS55A behaved this way, but I'm unsure about your CDI.

Certainly if the AP is in APPROACH mode and flying an RNAV, ILS or LOC, it should fly the required course regardless of what you have set in the CDI. It is good practice to set the CDI course rose to the appropriate position so you don't confuse yourself.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by Rich »

BTW, Dave is correct recommending the KAP140 manual. It has a number of different procedure sets depending on whether you have the King HSI setup or things more in line with what Timo has to work with.

I found that the link to the KAP140 manual on our wiki page was broken, so I replaced it.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
timonick
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:03 pm
First Name: Timo
Aircraft Type: DA40D
Aircraft Registration: DEWAQ
Airports: EDKA
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Autopilot NAV Mode Kap140

Post by timonick »

Rich wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:14 pm
timonick wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:31 pm
nathanda40 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:23 pm

the 430 has two output modes. GPS and VLOC. GPS mode will output the GPS navigation information to your HSI. VLOC mode will output to the HSI the information from your NAV radio

on either one you need to set the HSI to your desired course. the 430 will tell you "DTK" for "desired track" and you need to set your HSI to exactly that. then the KAP140 will follow that course as best as it can

Image
so i need to set the heading bug manually still when im in NAV mode (GPS/VLOC)? Because you wrote it sends to the HSI
We now know this aircraft does not have an HSI, but a conventional Gyrocompass and a separate CDI. These are old-school primitive. Absent malfunctions, this is the standard way this stuff behaves:

When the AP is in HDG mode it will hold the heading you select in the gyrocompass.

When the AP is in NAV mode it gets more complicated. Mostly it requires that you are tracking something set in the 430, such as to a VOR or waypoint or along a part of a flight plan. Given that, normally these will navigate the course you select in the CDI, whether VLOC or GPS. The 430 will tell you what to set it to, but won't automatically set it. However, with the 430, it's possible it will fly the required course irrespective of the position of the CDI compass rose. My original KCS55A behaved this way, but I'm unsure about your CDI.

Certainly if the AP is in APPROACH mode and flying an RNAV, ILS or LOC, it should fly the required course regardless of what you have set in the CDI. It is good practice to set the CDI course rose to the appropriate position so you don't confuse yourself.
yes i will test it more. last flight it looks like it works perfectly. when i fly more with this aircraft i will try more than 1 waypoint and test it how it works.
Post Reply