Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Tim H
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:44 pm
First Name: Tim
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N233MA
Airports: KMGY
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Tim H »

vontresc wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:08 pm Ugh... just ran into this little footnote on the AV-30 AML...

https://uavionix.com/downloads/AV-30-C/ ... Signed.pdf

Limitations:  
[1] Excluding aircraft with Maximum Operating Altitude greater than 25,000ft  
[2] Cannot function as standby attitude indicator on EFIS‐equipped aircraft  
[3] Excluding aircraft configured for more than 6 passenger seats or greater than 6,000lbs MTOW

So much for that...
The Limitations column is blank for the DA-40, so I don't think they apply. The limitations do apply to other models such as the Aerostar, Cirrus, etc..
User avatar
mhoran
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:56 pm
First Name: Matt
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N269RB
Airports: KLDJ
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 244 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by mhoran »

If the AV-30 could eliminate the need for the two year backup battery replacement (specs say it has a two hour internal battery), it would pay for itself quite quickly. Unfortunately I don't think this is possible given the way the AMM is written.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Rich »

mhoran wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:04 pm If the AV-30 could eliminate the need for the two year backup battery replacement (specs say it has a two hour internal battery), it would pay for itself quite quickly. Unfortunately I don't think this is possible given the way the AMM is written.
This would be similar to my Aspen install. It has its own battery so it's disconnected from the emergency switch. But the emergency power also feeds the floodlight. So I still have the emergency switch (and batteries). The switch is now labeled "emergency flood light power". For me this is not a big deal expense-wise. The likelihood of this ever being used is minuscule and I even have a backup to that, as my iPad is positioned such that its light can be used to illuminate the entire panel.

Incidentally, if one installs the RC Allen in a pre-G1000 DA40, it should include its own backup battery, as the open-circuit voltage (mine came out to 45 V at last change) of the 28 AA batteries is too high. I confirmed this with RC Allen. The G1000 high-expense battery should be OK.

But keep in mind that the solutions with built-in batteries generally have their own required replacement intervals. In the case of the RC Allen, e.g. it's 36 months.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Charles
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:36 pm
First Name: Charles
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: C-FLEV
Airports: CYHU
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Charles »

I also have an Aspen and RC Allen as backup. I did not bother to install a battery on the RC Allen given the Aspen has one. It would take a failure of the electrical system AND a failure of the Aspen to take both AIs out, which I feel is an acceptable risk to me.
User avatar
Steve
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
First Name: Steve
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N432SC
Airports: 1T7
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Steve »

Rich wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:47 pmBut keep in mind that the solutions with built-in batteries generally have their own required replacement intervals. In the case of the RC Allen, e.g. it's 36 months.
Very true. I have a maintenance spreadsheet that lists all of the ADs, SBs, and replacement intervals. Here is the "Other" category section, which includes batteries:
DA40ADs.pdf
(25.6 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
A lot of stuff to remember...
User avatar
gyro3816
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:25 pm
First Name: Adam
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N886KC
Airports: KPTK
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by gyro3816 »

There are ZERO limitations for the av-30c usage as a backup attitude indicator in all DA40s.
I think everyone on here should read the approved aircraft list. In the document note the column “limitations” for the da40 is blank (as there are none) so the previous comment regarding EFIS is inaccurate wrt da40.
The AV-30C is a solid choice at a solid price point.

https://uavionix.com/downloads/AV-30-C/ ... Signed.pdf
Adam
CSEL, CMEL, Instrument
N886KC DA40 XLS, G1000 w GFC700
User avatar
jwx96
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:54 pm
First Name: John
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N193JP
Airports: KFCM
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by jwx96 »

The standby electric AI used in the G1000 DA 40s is the primary AI in my 2003 DA40. The 1.5 hr AI backup battery in these early models is a pack of AA batteries. I am thinking of adding a Dynon D3 AI to back up the AI. It pinch mounts to a spare instrument hole so there is no approval required and it costs < $900. The unit goes home with you and has a rechargeable 8 HR battery. The reviews are good. It won’t work for a backup AI on G1000 planes.
User avatar
Bing
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:07 pm
First Name: Bruce
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N526DS
Airports: KJQF
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Bing »

My old L3 gyro backup attitude indicator was loosing the battle with age. I was told overhauling the unit was no longer an option due to the parts being discontinued. I was quoted $8k for a new replacement model or $4K for an overhauled unit. In my view that is insane pricing for a one trick dinosaur. After researching the electronic options, I chose the RC Allen Mini 6. A complete 6 pack in one unit with a backup battery. The big selling point for me was it's built in magnetometer. I'm am not a fan of the compass in IMC. Problem solved. I spent about 3 hours installing it with my A&P. It involved replacing a 3 amp circuit breaker with a 1 amp, changing the pin out arrangement on the power lead, tapping the pitot and static lines and removing the connection to the on board backup battery. All in I spent about $3,600.

I made a short video showing the installation.

https://youtu.be/vewa8hkui8I
User avatar
vontresc
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:51 pm
First Name: Peter
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N569DS
Airports: KMSN
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by vontresc »

So here's the interesting things I have found out so far. Garmin has ZERO docs out in the public domain that have any restrictions of what is "approved". I contacted RC Allen about installing the mini6, an I was told that it is ok to install the unit, BUT that it wasn't "approved" by Garmin as a G1000 backup. The inquiry I sent to Garmin still hasn't been answered, and the only response from a couple of avionics shops has been to spend $5k+ on a GI275.

I'm assuming ANY imitations would be in the detailed STC paperwork, but I cannot find anything beyond the cover sheets.

So much for trying to abide by the rules.

Again that mini6 looks like a nice choice as well.

Peter
User avatar
Bing
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:07 pm
First Name: Bruce
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N526DS
Airports: KJQF
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Standby Attitude Indicator Replacement

Post by Bing »

My A&P filed form 337 with the FAA. I'll let you know how it turns out. Elsewhere on the forum people say the have had success with the change to an electronic unit using this method.
Post Reply