No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

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ememic99
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by ememic99 »

KAP140 servos can’t be used for GFC500. Even servo mounts can’t be used which means (according to DAI) composite work which can be done only in factory.

And one drawback of GFC500 (I don’t know how important is to pilots who mainly fly VFR) - it can’t fly coupled ILS approach in case of GPS signal loss.
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by blsewardjr »

Emir- Thanks for that clarification based on your discussions with Diamond. I'm a little surprised that presumably the GFC700 also doesn't use the same servo mounts as the KAP140. (I assumed the use of new servos, which should be improvements.) I guess this is one of the reasons Diamond requires KAP140 to GFC700 changes for G1000 aircraft to be done at the factory. Disappointing news.
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Rich
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by Rich »

ememic99 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:22 pm KAP140 servos can’t be used for GFC500. Even servo mounts can’t be used which means (according to DAI) composite work which can be done only in factory.

And one drawback of GFC500 (I don’t know how important is to pilots who mainly fly VFR) - it can’t fly coupled ILS approach in case of GPS signal loss.
In looking deeper I've found various other gotchas, as noted earlier. There may be more.
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AD1166
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by AD1166 »

As far as difficulty, albeit Experimental, my uncle installed the GFC500 driven by a G5 in his Velocity in a matter of a couple long weekends, with outstanding results. He was shocked at the ease and simplicity. Surely between Garmin and DAI, they can figure it all out, potential shortcomings included. Somehow they managed with all the usual suspect AML aircraft (some many decades old), and also some surprising models that you would think would be similar to a DAXX in scope and popularity.

My guess is it all circles back to DAI and their ultimate disinterest in anything legacy. Garmin I’m sure knows the task at hand, and until it’s worth their trouble, we will remain towards the bottom of the list.

Could be a chicken/egg type situation…there’s no convincing me there’s not ample demand for an A/P upgrade/replacement option that doesn’t require a trip to the factory…but even a cursory review of this and other related Forums will quickly destroy even the most upbeat owner’s optimism that anything can be done.

But KAP140’s don’t last forever, and eventually parts will be increasingly hard to find (I currently have plenty, since I can’t get anyone to install one).

Maybe then the uproar will be loud enough, or common sense, logic, or reason will prevail…
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by pisymbol »

I don't think there is a single technical reason why the GFC500 (awesome AP, use one in a 182 all the time) can't be installed in a DA40.

I think it's purely economic/market driven: They don't want to devalue the GFC700 models. Imagine you could upgrade a GFC500 AP/G3X/750NXi combo in a 2003 DA-40. That's a lot cheaper than buying a G1000+GFC700 given the current used market pricing right now.

People forget: The G1000 is like ~20 year old technology. It boggles the mind right now.
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by Rich »

pisymbol wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:32 pm I think it's purely economic/market driven: They don't want to devalue the GFC700 models. Imagine you could upgrade a GFC500 AP/G3X/750NXi combo in a 2003 DA-40. That's a lot cheaper than buying a G1000+GFC700 given the current used market pricing right now.
I don't believe you can go to Garmin and buy a G1000/GFC700 from Garmin for retrofit into a 2003 DA40. And it would be hideously expensive to install.

Are you postulating that, although Garmin is making this device available for dozens of other makes/models comprising tens of thousands of airframes, it is intentionally trying to force the tiny market of DA40s manufactured before 2004 to buy G1000/GFC700 systems?
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by ememic99 »

It’s not driven by Garmin. Someone (it can be Garmin or anybody else if aircraft manufacturer is not interested) has to finance development of STC. However, if aircraft manufacturer owns some intelectual rights which have to be used for STC development and is not interested in giving up these rights to allow STC development, then STC won’t be developed. I don’t know what deals Garmin has with particular aircraft manufacturers but they are obviously different for different airframes.
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by pisymbol »

Rich wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:30 pm
pisymbol wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:32 pm I think it's purely economic/market driven: They don't want to devalue the GFC700 models. Imagine you could upgrade a GFC500 AP/G3X/750NXi combo in a 2003 DA-40. That's a lot cheaper than buying a G1000+GFC700 given the current used market pricing right now.
I don't believe you can go to Garmin and buy a G1000/GFC700 from Garmin for retrofit into a 2003 DA40. And it would be hideously expensive to install.

Are you postulating that, although Garmin is making this device available for dozens of other makes/models comprising tens of thousands of airframes, it is intentionally trying to force the tiny market of DA40s manufactured before 2004 to buy G1000/GFC700 systems?
That is exactly what I'm saying but said differently: The pre-GFC700 market is very tiny. The ROI for an STC in small. Couple that with the fact that they are devaluing to a certain extent all the models with the GFC700.
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by AD1166 »

Gave up the fight, bit the bullet, and purchased a 2008 XLS. N314SE will be going up for sale any day now; and for whoever is in the market for something like this, it's gotta be one of, if not the, cleanest steam gauge DA40's in existence. Would have much rather kept it and installed a modern autopilot, but alas, it just wasn't meant to be...
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Re: No plans for Diamond GFC 500 autopilot?

Post by pisymbol »

AD1166 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:19 pm Gave up the fight, bit the bullet, and purchased a 2008 XLS. N314SE will be going up for sale any day now; and for whoever is in the market for something like this, it's gotta be one of, if not the, cleanest steam gauge DA40's in existence. Would have much rather kept it and installed a modern autopilot, but alas, it just wasn't meant to be...
I feel your pain.
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