DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Any DA62 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
VickersPilot
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:41 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N00TBC
Airports:
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 80 times

DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by VickersPilot »

An esteemed GA journalist, Paul Bertorelli described the DA62 as "if money were no object and I could buy anything I wanted, I never know how to answer that, but on my shortlist is one of these". After a year of ownership, I add some thoughts why the DA62 may be the best GA aircraft ever built…

- Airframe - beautiful, elegant carbon fibre fuselage but unlike competitors, the control surfaces are also carbon fibre. A Cirrus has flight control surfaces corrode even when hangered leading to expensive repaint, rebalance costs. Superior Pitot/Static system… smart system with reduced power to pitot when WoW. Heated static port too - haven’t seen either on similar aircraft. Cabin width and height support comfortable flights.

- Doors - most solid feel of any GA aircraft, with positive latching and electronic confirmation. Good armrest. Good thermal isolation on armrest. No slam and pray.

- Fuel System - the only GA aircraft with a contained, protected fuel system between the twin spars and less explosive fuel. Almost no fuel management except pumping down from the Aux. Do we really want to be bothered flying an old explosive tin can where one mistake results in a fireball? No thanks.

- Fuel - Jet-A means I pick the airports globally, not the airport fuelling policy. The ‘big’ airports are increasingly not stocking AvGas to eliminate small aircraft. So we can access a multitude more airports globally. My Homebase doesn’t stock AvGas. Oh, JetA is cheaper too.

- Landing Gear - the Cirrus COPA group have a thread 1,081 posts long today titled ‘Recent Landing Mishaps - Let’s be careful out there’. It’s a topic of conversation with the M600 where I believe, and maybe be incorrect that there are or were insurance considerations for aircraft ‘darting’ off the runway. TBMs have a special training scenario in place to land correctly. DiamondAviators, we don’t even have an open topic? No specialist landing clinics. Why? Superior trailing link landing gear - well done Diamond. Beringer Brakes and Tubeless Tyres are a welcome addition. Ground handling is very assured with the large tyres and maintenance simplified by NLG and MLG tyres being the same.

- Flying Qualities - the aircraft typically does what I expect. Perhaps due to direct linkage to the control surfaces and with the absence of interlinking springs, the control inputs are more precise as one isn’t compensating for cable slack or tension.

- Electrical System - we can see our circuit breaker panel. Much more important to me than 12'' screens.

- Engines - only use 4 power settings till flare. 100% for Takeoff, 95% for Climb, 75% for cruise, 55% for descent and landing (no need to change power setting from cruise to flare using 3 precent VNAV from cruise alt and adding gear and flaps at appropriate time - assuming traffic allows). Since the FADEC accurately metres the fuel, very accurate fuel consumption possible in ForeFlight model (about ~5% below book in my aircraft). Austros have problems but both the Conti’s I’ve had - have had case cracks, cam spalling and endless problems with these Fred Flintstone engines.

- Fatigue - vibration and noise considerably reduced. Long flight days possible with smooth engines and lower RPM. Engines mounted on more advanced isolation dampener than competitors. I could never previously do 8-9 hour flights days without headaches.

- Large Airport Operation / Speedbrake - if traffic requires, okay to fly 150kts to 3nm and drop gear, flap, flap, open prop by reducing power. Airplane slows easily.

- Radar - Diamond have confirmed the GWX8000 radar coming available with Garmin NXI Phase III. This is a ‘game changing’ radar that significantly increases the incentive to fly a radar equipped aircraft vs NEXRAD for the non-professional radar operator. The GWX8000 provides volumetric scanning and removes tilt management, providing live "NEXRAD like" mosaic without years of radar experience.

I think it’s important to recognise this aircraft is the articulation of a lifetime of education and experience of engineers at Diamond and a product of engineering safety over a marketing department. Overall, the Diamond engineers should be superbly proud of the aircraft they have designed and built - perhaps the greatest GA aircraft ever. Thank you.

To the engineers - please enjoy a nice Spritzer basking in the owners appreciation of your remarkable work.
User avatar
mfdutra
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:49 pm
First Name: Marlon
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N272DD
Airports: KHWD
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 162 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by mfdutra »

Mostly agree, but with some considerations. Cirrus is far ahead in avionics. The whole phase 3 fiasco with Diamond has been a shame. It's pathetic the airplane doesn't have features that all the competition with NXi has had since 2017. That's SIX years. Also, in the Cirrus, you can have dual ADAHRS and both screens are fully functional independently. If the PFD dies, the MFD can drive the autopilot for example. That's not possible in the DA62.

If you have an attitude disagreement between the PFD and standby, which one is right? There is a reason all serious airplanes have an odd number of critical systems, like attitude indicator, inertial navigator, etc. You need a tie breaker.

You cannot use YD without the AP engaged, which is ridiculous. Minimum altitude select 1200 AGL, which makes it pretty much illegal to fly a circle approach on the AP (the level phase), which is the standard procedure in most serious flight schools.

No angle of attack indication, even in the FIKI airplanes. That's annoying.

A Piper PA46 has redundant pitot-static system, which I think the DA62 should have as well.

I think an M350 is a better comparison for the DA62. They are in similar price points and features. An SR22T is quite a bit cheaper.

I have a Cirrus G6 and I'm moving to a DA62 next month. I'm quite familiar with both airplanes.
User avatar
Soareyes
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:47 pm
First Name: Dan
Aircraft Type: DA42-VI
Aircraft Registration: N518R
Airports: KINF
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 191 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by Soareyes »

A nice list Dave and like Marlon, I agree with most of what you wrote.

Marlon and I are both Cirrus -> Diamond converts so take this as from within the family. I like my Diamond but there were some things better in the Cirrus.

Number one, first and foremost; avionics and the whole Cirrus Perspective panel. I've owned four different G1000 planes including my present DA42. The Diamond panel is excellent but Cirrus, working with Garmin, has customized and improved on the the basic G1000 in a lot of little ways. If only there could be an intuitive, highly useful Cirrus-style QWERTY keypad and other controls on the center console and move the rarely used parking brake and heater controls elsewhere, anywhere...

Ground handling? It takes less pedal force to taxi the Cirrus, is easier to manhandle on the ground and as to fitting into a hangar, well.

The springs in the control system were something I disliked in the Cirrus because they dampened the feel of the air but there wasn't any slop or lack of tension in the controls. A Cirrus has control rods for everything except the rudder just like Diamond. The control feel is quick, light and agile, just can't feel the air as well. The twin Diamonds in comparison are ponderous and comparatively heavy in roll. As expected no doubt with longer wings carrying heavy engines though I've heard the same about the DA50. My DA40s still had the best handling of any plane in my limited experience.

I'm hoping Austro engines will live up to the durability reputation of diesels but it feels like we are just now getting to really know them in an aviation application. We push these engines a lot harder than they do in cars. Timing chains and gearboxes that don't like to have the prop drive the engine makes one reluctant to do single engine practice. High pressure fuel pump and fuel injector ADs. Flywheel/torque vibration dampers that 50% have to be replaced at 600 hours. And most recently, self destructing pistons in engines assembled both a decade ago by Mercedes and in new ones by Austro, all have shaken my confidence a bit.

Actually, maybe number one, first and foremost should be the parachute. The singles need one and the twins need autoland. Ask your passengers.

But not complaining. Every now and then I look at what is in the hangar and it hits me again, what an amazing machine!
Current: DA42-V1

Previous: Hang gliders, Paraglider, DA40(x3), Cessna 150 Aerobat, SR22
User avatar
Boatguy
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1827
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
First Name: Russ
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N962M
Airports: KSTS
Has thanked: 1328 times
Been thanked: 1163 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by Boatguy »

Soareyes wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:52 amActually, maybe number one, first and foremost should be the parachute. The singles need one and the twins need autoland. Ask your passengers.
I don't know why these are mentioned in the same sentence when they address entirely different issues. The parachute is the choice for either a low altitude problem, or no suitable off field location, or simply loss of control or situational awareness.

Autoland is about pilot incapacitation, which can happen in a single, or a twin, but is in fact very very rare. It's a very expensive solution to anxiety about a problem which rarely happens.

The parachute is the far cheaper and better solution for both problems. If the pilot is incapacitated, with minimal training, or ATC direction, a passenger can get the plane into a position where pulling the power and the chute will probably result in a fatality free crash. Diamond will not have either in the next ten years, so this is pretty much an academic discussion!

Marlon makes excellent points about the DA62. The long delayed Phase III will bring the DA62 to where Cirrus, and other Garmin OEMs were long ago, but without the duel AHRS, etc. To be the greatest GA aircraft ever built, Diamond will need to get past struggling to simply build the original design with seven year old avionics. The greatest GA aircraft ever built will incorporate meaningful evolution and innovation during its lifetime. What the Japanese call kaizen, continual improvement. Diamond has not brought meaningful innovation or evolution to the 40, 42 or 62 in the last ten years. It has struggled to simply incorporate feature upgrades from from its suppliers.

The greatest GA aircraft ever built? I don't think so. But the original design has some wonderful characteristics and owns a unique niche among GA aircraft. I appreciate what it has today and the niche that it fills, which is why I ordered one in 2021.
User avatar
VickersPilot
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:41 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N00TBC
Airports:
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by VickersPilot »

I agree re: avionics. I’ve no doubt Diamond will provide an update program to modernise the fleet once the avionics bottleneck is solved. I’m assuming the avionics issue is temporary.

The ground handling is perfectly fine with Beringers - I really don’t notice any issues. Aircraft need a tug on ground. There will always be individual issues, but I believe as a package, it wins.
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by CFIDave »

There's not much to complain about with respect to the DA62 airframe (except perhaps the excessive force required for nose wheel steering due to the large nose gear tire being the same size as the mains). It's a joy to fly with zero bad habits. I enjoyed giving lots of demos where I'd pull the power to idle, performing a full stall with the stick held all the way back; all the buffeting plane would do was descend wings-level at about 1300 fpm -- a slower vertical descent rate than a Cirrus SR22 under parachute. And being able to drop the gear at any airspeed to use as speed brakes is a very convenient feature. (In comparison, on my Epic E1000 the max gear speed is only 150 knots, which means when accelerating on takeoff with 1200 hp I will overspeed the gear if I don't retract it within about 5 seconds after rotation off the runway!)

And who doesn't love push-button starting and single-lever power operation -- with no leaning, overheating or shock cooling to worry about.

My biggest issue was Austro engine problems. My DA42-VI developed an unstable cruise RPM on one engine that was ultimately traced to a failed head gasket and required complete replacement of the head -- major surgery on the engine. One of my DA62 engines kept suffering from low coolant, nearly stranding me once in North Dakota after a couple liters of coolant spewed out of the overpressure valve right after landing. (The eventual fix was to replace the valve.) I had to have one of my gearboxes replaced due to big metal chunks that showed up on the magnetic drain plug. And multiple small oil leaks (e.g., around the high-pressure fuel pump) that took multiple trips to the shop to fix.

I was also very disappointed with the changes that Diamond/Austro made to their engine maintenance schedule AFTER I had bought the plane, with no compensation to owners:
- Austro decided that DA62 AE330 (E4PC) engines -- but not AE300 (E4A, B, C) engines of DA42s and DA40NGs -- required both heads to be replaced at 900 hours, a pair of VERY expensive engine rebuilds. This does not apply to newer DA62s that shipped with newer heads, but these newer DA62s have their own issues ever since Austro ran out of "genuine Mercedes" engine cores (with better parts quality control).
- Elimination of Austro Engine overhaul, requiring all engines to be "thrown away" and replaced with new engines at 1800 hours.

The air conditioning capacity is woefully inadequate if you live where it gets hot and humid -- JetShades helped a little bit, but the DA62 really needs a better air conditioner.

And after 5 years of DA62 ownership with G1000 NXi, I never did get to experience the missing NXi Phase III features that all of Diamond's competitors offered in their planes as far back as 2017.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by CFIDave »

VickersPilot wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:56 pm- Engines - only use 4 power settings till flare. 100% for Takeoff, 95% for Climb, 75% for cruise, 55% for descent and landing (no need to change power setting from cruise to flare using 3 precent VNAV from cruise alt and adding gear and flaps at appropriate time - assuming traffic allows).
That's interesting, because I teach transitioning new DA62 owners to reduce power to 35% power when landing -- when flying a standard traffic pattern and abeam the numbers on downwind, with gear already down. If done right, there's no need for touch 35% power again until right before flaring.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
VickersPilot
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:41 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N00TBC
Airports:
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by VickersPilot »

Yip, 55% is based on a standard 3 degree glidepath or VNAV. Thanks for the 35% setting, I’ll try it for a traffic pattern soon.

Ps please tell us about the EPIC… I suspect everyone is super interested to hear more.
User avatar
Boatguy
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1827
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
First Name: Russ
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N962M
Airports: KSTS
Has thanked: 1328 times
Been thanked: 1163 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by Boatguy »

CFIDave wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:49 pmThat's interesting, because I teach transitioning new DA62 owners to reduce power to 35% power when landing -- when flying a standard traffic pattern and abeam the numbers on downwind, with gear already down. If done right, there's no need for touch 35% power again until right before flaring.
At either 55% or 35%, that means there is never a "check gear" warning. So the "check gear" only occurs during OEI training. Kinda annoying and not very useful in routine flying.
User avatar
ememic99
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1078
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
First Name: Emir
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
Airports: LDZA LDVA
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: DA62 - the greatest GA aircraft ever built?

Post by ememic99 »

55% in approach doesn't make sense at all - it's simply too much.
Post Reply