Unleaded avgas

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pietromarx
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Unleaded avgas

Post by pietromarx »

This piece is well worth the read: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/2 ... l-00081641

IMO, GA using engines burning leaded gasoline is unlikely to continue near any city of any developed country for much longer.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by dmloftus »

Hits home with me as I got my PPL at KRHV and I've flown quite a few hours on the exact C172 in the picture, N3547H. We all agree that we want to see 100UL as quickly as possible. Just hate to see 100LL banned at KRHV and E16 on the junk science they used with Santa Clara County. I also hate seeing them justify it as race issue. KRHV has been around far longer than 99% of the residents that made their own choice to buy near that airport. There are many other places to live in the Bay area if they don't like it.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by Colin »

Like the closure of KSMO in Santa Monica, this is all about seizing the land. It has nothing to do with race, the environment or anything else. Proof is that the moment it was proposed to keep SMO open, just ban the fuel, they said it was the noise. When they tested and found there was more noise from local traffic they said it was the danger of the planes crashing. It always shifted.

And it's not the land the airport is ON. It is the protected area inside the delta. You can't build up past six stories, and if you look at the Wilshire Corridor you can see where the delta starts because the high rises stop. If not for SMO then Wilshire would march to the sea and it would look like Miami with a bunch of high rises looking at the ocean. It's billions of dollars. Really difficult to fight. They happily funded all sorts of "grassroots" groups in the effort to shut it down. They will do the same thing at RHV.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by ememic99 »

Colin wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:14 pm Like the closure of KSMO in Santa Monica, this is all about seizing the land. It has nothing to do with race, the environment or anything else. Proof is that the moment it was proposed to keep SMO open, just ban the fuel, they said it was the noise. When they tested and found there was more noise from local traffic they said it was the danger of the planes crashing. It always shifted.
Reminds me on Coventry, UK. All excuses were thrown in why to close the airport while real reason was battery factory planning to build facility there. When they decided for other location on the north where they got better conditions, nobody was bothered anymore about closing the airport.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by janders »

Colin wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:14 pm ... And it's not the land the airport is ON. It is the protected area inside the delta. You can't build up past six stories, ...
I dont know all the rules, but I do know that Meigs used to be class D and all the downtown buildings were inside the delta. Here is a link to the old sectional that I found here.

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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by Rich »

N157DA wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:58 pm
Colin wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:14 pm ... And it's not the land the airport is ON. It is the protected area inside the delta. You can't build up past six stories, ...
I dont know all the rules, but I do know that Meigs used to be class D and all the downtown buildings were inside the delta. Here is a link to the old sectional that I found here.
To say nothing of NYC airspace. Or DC (for anyone who has ever ridden or flown the river approaches into what was then Washington-Dulles - now Ronald Reagan - airport).
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by Colin »

Some of those, certainly Meigs, pre-dated the definition of the airspace and the restrictions. (I think that's why there is the one tall building on Ocean Blvd and Wilshire.)

One of the Chicago mayoral candidates is running on a promise to re-open Meigs. He says that Chicago deserves a downtown airport.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by TimS »

Colin wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:14 pm Like the closure of KSMO in Santa Monica, this is all about seizing the land. It has nothing to do with race, the environment or anything else. Proof is that the moment it was proposed to keep SMO open, just ban the fuel, they said it was the noise. When they tested and found there was more noise from local traffic they said it was the danger of the planes crashing. It always shifted.

And it's not the land the airport is ON. It is the protected area inside the delta. You can't build up past six stories, and if you look at the Wilshire Corridor you can see where the delta starts because the high rises stop. If not for SMO then Wilshire would march to the sea and it would look like Miami with a bunch of high rises looking at the ocean. It's billions of dollars. Really difficult to fight. They happily funded all sorts of "grassroots" groups in the effort to shut it down. They will do the same thing at RHV.
That is a very cynical view, and very possible with many people.

However, in this case, a number of the organizations which have been named in the article have had very little to do with airports, closures or otherwise, and also have a longer history of advocating on behalf of poorer communities.
However, due to history, airports have a problem. It is not that airports were located in undesirable locations, but rather because of the airport, the cost to live in that location was lower, which attracted an economically disadvantaged population. However, until you can find a way to address this nuanced view, you will lose the debate.

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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by CFIDave »

Rich wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:59 pmOr DC (for anyone who has ever ridden or flown the river approaches into what was then Washington-Dulles - now Ronald Reagan - airport).
FYI, Washington Dulles (KIAD) is the big international airport located more than 20 miles to the west of DC, whereas the downtown airport KDCA is "Ronald Reagan National Airport."

Those of us who live in the DC area never call KDCA "Reagan" -- to us it's still "National" airport. The name Reagan was added to the name by a Republican Congress over the strong objections of local residents. But perhaps more interesting, you won't hear ATC refer to KDCA as "Reagan;" it's still "National" airport to them. Why? While US President, Ronald Reagan fired all of the air traffic controllers, and they'll never forget that.
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Re: Unleaded avgas

Post by TimS »

@cfidave

One other fun point. Republicans in Congress actually had to pass a law to amend a law/rule highly favored by President Reagan. One of the items he pushed for was blocking the naming of any structure (even a sign) until the person being named had left office at least twenty five years previously, there was a small exception for those killed in the line of duty.

I never did dig into the details if this was an EO/Regulation or law, since it was before my time. But I always found it ironic that Congress had to go against President Reagan's own wishes.

Tim
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