XLS or NG?

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rwtucker
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XLS or NG?

Post by rwtucker »

I have a decent trade in offer to swap my 2008 XLS for a low time 2021 NG. I love my XLS but I have no knowledge of what I gain and lose (if anything).

Setting aside the dollars and age, why would I be happier the NG and what, if anything would I miss? I will not fly either enough to compensate financially for the fuel burn differences. I'm thinking not only about features but differences, if any, in maintenance difficulty and costs, especially for someone who does owner assisted annuals.

The NG seller and the XLS buyer are different people so there is no issues to wonder about there.
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by Rainair »

Personally I would go for the NG. But the difference (buying NG, selling XLS) should not be more than 150-200k I would say.
Not a helpful comment, just my thoughts.
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Boatguy
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by Boatguy »

That's a subject which has been debated at length by the advocates of each and for the most part is now avoided since that horse has been beaten too many times! You can search this forum and find all the advocates of the Austro engined DA40 versus the "bullet proof" IO-360 version.

My suggest is to read those threads, and then go fly the NG. I don't want to re-ignite the debate in this thread, though that may be inevitable. Fly the plane.

WRT 2021, that model year may be affected by MSB-E4-039 for which there are several long threads. Find out the s/n of the engine and check it against the MSB to see if the engine is affected, and then what category it is in.
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Mjwatlanta
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by Mjwatlanta »

Caveat - ppl in 1979. No flying from 1980 until summer 2023. About 110 hours since. I wanted a modern safe plane so I sought out training in a DA40. All I could find was gas versions. Really reminded me of starting and managing engines 40 years ago. A certain two handed dance with a prayer. Russ the boatguy described the start of a da40 gas like a shaking dog. I flew/trained about 35 hours then bought my NG. Starts ever time. Every time. Prop and mixture management no longer tax my brain. I find it more stable in the pattern. It’s certainly “torquier” in that if I’m a little low a little bump of throttle and up it goes. I’ll never make up the gas price difference either, but it’s still nice to fly to Asheville and back on just a few gallons of Jet A. While I don’t have a hanger, the NG is a little narrower too. Fly it.
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by mhoran »

I've flown both but own an XL. They are each fun to fly in their own way. I sort of enjoy the somewhat temperamental IO-360. The NG is also fun, though. Having a single power lever has its advantages. The 2021 NG has the G1000 NXi versus the legacy G1000, which has some nice features. Diamond seems a bit more invested in the NG versus the Lycoming, but I can go anywhere for maintenance so that point is moot.

I'm sure you're aware of the NG engine issues but you can read all about them on the forum. Those alone wouldn't scare me away, but it would weigh into the decision. If you have a good shop that can maintain the NG and you like the way it flies, I'd say go for it.

Personally though, I love my XL and after nine years I know the plane inside and out. That's worth keeping it despite the things that sometimes drive me crazy. I know a new plane would just have its own quirks!
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by krellis »

Ask the folks that recently changed their NG orders to XLT. To me, that says it all.
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by dmloftus »

I own a 2008 XLS in Atlanta and contributed to several threads Russ mentions above. I would seriously consider an NG if I lived closer to a Diamond-certified shop, but I'm 2 hours away. Any A&P can work on an IO-360. Not so much on the diesel (exactly zero in shops at KLZU, I checked), so I opted for the XLS. Having flown both, I like the graphics and a few features better on the G1000 Nxi, but my legacy G1000 does everything I need. In a few years, when hopefully there is much wider availability of diesel-trained A&P's, I'll seriously consider an NG or, hopefully, other Jet A options available at the time.
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by rwtucker »

Thanks everyone. This is really helpful. I have an open mind, and the NG looks like a very refined machine but I'm leaning toward keeping my XLS at the moment. Over time, I the fine art of starting the IO-360 under various conditions, and engine management is now an automatic process that requires no active attention. If I'm in a hurry, I can cruise over 150 kts and under 9 GPH or I can smell the roses LOP at 128-132 kts and sixish GPH. Not NG economy but passable. In theory, the Austro should be more reliable than an IO-360 . . . but not yet it seems. One friend at KEUL is approaching 3,600 hours SMOH on his IO-360 with no overhaul in sight. (Are Austro overhauls mandated by hours or can they run on condition until they fail conditional tests?)

I read the MSB and have requested the engine serial. We'll see what the serial number reveals. If that passes, I'll look at the final price negotiation. Right now, they want $220K to swap my well cared for XLS with 460 hours TTAF for the 2021 NG with 60 hours. It seems high but even if not according to the books, the value added doesn't seem strong.
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by Rich »

This is a great overview of some things you’d want to know:

https://hasslo.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... V5_2-6.pdf
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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dmloftus
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Re: XLS or NG?

Post by dmloftus »

Rich wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:04 am This is a great overview of some things you’d want to know:

https://hasslo.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... V5_2-6.pdf
That's a great document. Is there a similar one for XLS? Or XLT?
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