Which engine would you buy?
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
-
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 8:54 pm
- First Name: JC
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: None
- Airports: KTRI
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Which engine would you buy?
I really do want to get into a da42. So, given the current situation with diamond, their customer service, the austro engines, continentals, lycoming…
Which one would you buy in 2025?
Which one would you buy in 2025?
- Chris
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:34 am
- First Name: Chris
- Aircraft Type: DA42NG
- Aircraft Registration: N449TS
- Airports: KHIO
- Has thanked: 1231 times
- Been thanked: 511 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
I don't think the Lycoming DA42-L360 makes much sense for anything other than training. More complicated to fly (six levers instead of two), less range due to higher fuel burn, less well-supported by Diamond. But easier to find maintenance facilities, for sure.
People who own aircraft with CD-155 engines have seemed pretty happy with them. They have a different set of issues than the Austros, and Diamond has pretty much orphaned them, but I think they are probably still a good option.
If you can find a DA42-VI/NG with older (Mercedes-built) Austros that aren't subject to the current set of onerous ADs, that might be my personal preference. But that requires faith (some might say misplaced) that Austro will get their production problems sorted out well before you need new engines.
People who own aircraft with CD-155 engines have seemed pretty happy with them. They have a different set of issues than the Austros, and Diamond has pretty much orphaned them, but I think they are probably still a good option.
If you can find a DA42-VI/NG with older (Mercedes-built) Austros that aren't subject to the current set of onerous ADs, that might be my personal preference. But that requires faith (some might say misplaced) that Austro will get their production problems sorted out well before you need new engines.
- michael.g.miller
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:52 am
- First Name: Mike
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Airports:
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 179 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
I would get a diesel for sure. The main appeal to the DA42 is that you get:
- JET-A burning (cheaper than 100LL especially with CAA). You can visit major airports and pay $5/gal (compare to $8-9 for AvGas!)
- 100h service intervals
- Use synthetic oil off Amazon, and stock auto filters from MANN
- FADEC (no hot starts, no prop/mixture controls
If those aren't important to you, I'd choose another airframe to be honest! No sense getting a DA42 with Lycosaurus engines.
As for Austro vs. Continental diesels, the only thing I'd say is that the 135hp version probably needs some more power for takeoff (from what I hear.. I've never flown one). Other than that, probably a toss up. As Chris mentioned, there has been some teething pains for the Austro, with the pistons. But that should be behind Austro shortly. There are tradeoffs between the engines (Austro requires mandatory 900h injector replacement, Continental requires 600h HPP replacement, Austro lets you burn more types of engine oil).. but all in all they're relatively similar.
Just buy whichever fits your budget/desire.
- JET-A burning (cheaper than 100LL especially with CAA). You can visit major airports and pay $5/gal (compare to $8-9 for AvGas!)
- 100h service intervals
- Use synthetic oil off Amazon, and stock auto filters from MANN
- FADEC (no hot starts, no prop/mixture controls
If those aren't important to you, I'd choose another airframe to be honest! No sense getting a DA42 with Lycosaurus engines.
As for Austro vs. Continental diesels, the only thing I'd say is that the 135hp version probably needs some more power for takeoff (from what I hear.. I've never flown one). Other than that, probably a toss up. As Chris mentioned, there has been some teething pains for the Austro, with the pistons. But that should be behind Austro shortly. There are tradeoffs between the engines (Austro requires mandatory 900h injector replacement, Continental requires 600h HPP replacement, Austro lets you burn more types of engine oil).. but all in all they're relatively similar.
Just buy whichever fits your budget/desire.
- krellis
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am
- First Name: Keith
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N853DF
- Airports: GA04
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 89 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
Some teething pains, really? These engines have had issues almost since day one. Turbos, injectors, fuel pumps, coolant leaks, cylinder heads, connecting rod bolts, etc. and now the pistons. The Mercedes sourced engines may be somewhat better than the Austro produced ones, but even they were/are hardly trouble free. What makes you think these problems will "be behind Austro shortly"? Do you have some data that shows the pistons currently in testing will be a terminating action for the current AD? And how long will owners have to wait once they send their engines off to Canada for rework? Sorry, but wishful thinking does not negate reality.michael.g.miller wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:08 pm I would get a diesel for sure. The main appeal to the DA42 is that you get:
- JET-A burning (cheaper than 100LL especially with CAA). You can visit major airports and pay $5/gal (compare to $8-9 for AvGas!)
- 100h service intervals
- Use synthetic oil off Amazon, and stock auto filters from MANN
- FADEC (no hot starts, no prop/mixture controls
If those aren't important to you, I'd choose another airframe to be honest! No sense getting a DA42 with Lycosaurus engines.
As for Austro vs. Continental diesels, the only thing I'd say is that the 135hp version probably needs some more power for takeoff (from what I hear.. I've never flown one). Other than that, probably a toss up. As Chris mentioned, there has been some teething pains for the Austro, with the pistons. But that should be behind Austro shortly. There are tradeoffs between the engines (Austro requires mandatory 900h injector replacement, Continental requires 600h HPP replacement, Austro lets you burn more types of engine oil).. but all in all they're relatively similar.
Just buy whichever fits your budget/desire.
- michael.g.miller
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:52 am
- First Name: Mike
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Airports:
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 179 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
@Keith - From my conversations with SCs, I expect a terminating action for the pistons to be implemented by March/April. Not too far, just 2 months away. A hassle in the short term, but no reason for a would-be buyer to change their purchasing decision.
- Soareyes
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:47 pm
- First Name: Dan
- Aircraft Type: DA42-VI
- Aircraft Registration: N518R
- Airports: KINF
- Has thanked: 302 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
Did you hear about the RV-10 that crashed January 2nd because the door was open? Pilot died.
https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/unse ... -10-crash/
The Van's website currently shows six service bulletins for the RV-10 in the last two years alone including checking for cracked landing gear mounts, leaking oil coolers, autopilot runaway trim and elevator cracks. https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-in ... &sort=date
Then there was an AD last fall for certain Lycoming engines because of connecting rod failures. Repetitve oil inspections are required to check for bronze metal particulates. https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ng-engines
https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/unse ... -10-crash/
The Van's website currently shows six service bulletins for the RV-10 in the last two years alone including checking for cracked landing gear mounts, leaking oil coolers, autopilot runaway trim and elevator cracks. https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-in ... &sort=date
Then there was an AD last fall for certain Lycoming engines because of connecting rod failures. Repetitve oil inspections are required to check for bronze metal particulates. https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ng-engines
Current: DA42-V1
Previous: Hang gliders, Paraglider, DA40(x3), Cessna 150 Aerobat, SR22
Previous: Hang gliders, Paraglider, DA40(x3), Cessna 150 Aerobat, SR22
- krellis
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am
- First Name: Keith
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N853DF
- Airports: GA04
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 89 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
I respectfully disagree. I believe the prudent thing to do by a prospective buyer is to sit on the sidelines until the terminating action is approved and then probably wait a bit more.michael.g.miller wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:49 pm @Keith - From my conversations with SCs, I expect a terminating action for the pistons to be implemented by March/April. Not too far, just 2 months away. A hassle in the short term, but no reason for a would-be buyer to change their purchasing decision.
While the redesigned pistons might fix the latest issue, it’s not like the Austros have been problem free up until now. Automotive conversions do not have the best track record in aviation (thinking about the Porsche PFM - some of the best engineers in the world designed these engines and they didn’t survive aviation use).
If you can afford a $500k- 2 million asset potentially being a hangar queen, then go ahead and buy one. I personally don’t see a valid reason to do so.
- krellis
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am
- First Name: Keith
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N853DF
- Airports: GA04
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 89 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
Not sure if this is directed at me, but since I built an RV-10, I assume it might be.Soareyes wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:44 pm Did you hear about the RV-10 that crashed January 2nd because the door was open? Pilot died.
https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/unse ... -10-crash/
The Van's website currently shows six service bulletins for the RV-10 in the last two years alone including checking for cracked landing gear mounts, leaking oil coolers, autopilot runaway trim and elevator cracks. https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-in ... &sort=date
Then there was an AD last fall for certain Lycoming engines because of connecting rod failures. Repetitve oil inspections are required to check for bronze metal particulates. https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ng-engines
As to the door opening and the tragic loss of life - it’s hardly the first airplane that this has happened to. In my case, I’ve installed a warning system on all four door pins and more importantly I installed an aftermarket cam lock that really should be standard on these planes. Many RV-10 owners have installed them or retrofitted them to their planes as a much needed safety feature. Assuming the door doesn’t take the tail off when it departs the plane (and several doors have been lost) - the plane is perfectly flyable. And isn’t there an AD or MSB on the DA-40 rear doors right now?
As to the cracked landing gear mount - there have been a few instances of this occurring with RV-10’s primarily operating off grass strips. Since I live on a grass strip, I preemptively replaced my landing gear mounts with the stronger, redesigned mounts while I was building the plane. The oil cooler issue was a small range of Airflow Performance oil coolers supplied to Van’s and to other kitplane makers. I used a different oil cooler. The runaway trim issue is not unique to this airplane. There are several mitigation strategies including trim running time limits easily set in the Garmin trim configuration setup page of the G3X Touch system. The elevator cracking has occurred on one RV-10 (coincidentally on a Georgia diesel powered airplane) and several RV-14’s that have 4 cylinder engines. The cracking is watched for on walk arounds and especially during the condition inspection (annual inspection for experimentals). There is a redesigned elevator assembly procedure which hopefully should eliminate the issue (and just for comparison I can build two new elevators in a couple of days at a cost of less than $1500). Last time I looked (years ago), a single DA-20 elevator was over $7000.
As to the Lycoming connecting rod bushing issue, this also affects a large number of certified airplanes. AD’s do not apply to experimental airplanes and/or engines unless specifically addressed in the AD. I do agree that one would be prudent to abide by the AD regardless. If the bronze levels are high on a UOA, then more invasive action would be required. As I said before when someone pointed out this AD, at least there is a known terminating action should one be so affected.
There is a reason experimental aviation is growing (and MOSAIC may lead to even more growth) and certified general aviation has been pretty stagnant. Sorry for the big time thread drift.
-
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 8:54 pm
- First Name: JC
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: None
- Airports: KTRI
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Which engine would you buy?
This is what has me concerned about ANY da42
If you can afford a $500k- 2 million asset potentially being a hangar queen, then go ahead and buy one. I personally don’t see a valid reason to do so.
- TimS
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
- First Name: Timothy
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N1446C
- Airports: 6B6 Stowe MA
- Has thanked: 134 times
- Been thanked: 117 times
Re: Which engine would you buy?
@krellis
The grass is always greener....
Just a couple years ago, the BT crowed was going bonkers because the old and venerable CMI engine for most Bonanzas and Barons had multiple ADs, some of which required significant disassembly of part of the engine.
Lycoming had a rash of ADs, I think just over a decade ago.
The reality is the FAA engine testing is better than nothing, and the engineering review is descent. But neither is up to actual field usage for testing and verification. So yes, Austro has some teething panes. Lycoming and CMI both run onto issues with changes in production. So far, Diamond has done a pretty descent job of addressing the issues when they come up. Diamond has failed miserably at communication. But you really cannot have everything...
Tim
The grass is always greener....
Just a couple years ago, the BT crowed was going bonkers because the old and venerable CMI engine for most Bonanzas and Barons had multiple ADs, some of which required significant disassembly of part of the engine.
Lycoming had a rash of ADs, I think just over a decade ago.
The reality is the FAA engine testing is better than nothing, and the engineering review is descent. But neither is up to actual field usage for testing and verification. So yes, Austro has some teething panes. Lycoming and CMI both run onto issues with changes in production. So far, Diamond has done a pretty descent job of addressing the issues when they come up. Diamond has failed miserably at communication. But you really cannot have everything...
Tim