DA62 down in Dubai

Any DA62 related topics

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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by Colin » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:36 pm

Per flight hour and per plane this might make the DA62 the deadliest Diamond model.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by NDCDA62 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm

Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by Rick » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:00 pm

Has anyone found or seen the video? I'm guessing it's maybe only available to the investigation team right now, but I just wondered.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by ememic99 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:31 am

NDCDA62 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm
Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
I was also wondering how such accident fits to statistics (assuming wake turbulence was the cause) because it practically doesn't relate to any airframe/engine malfunction or crew decision. I don't know if that's correct but one airliner pilot told me that in case of parallel runways with displaced threshold even ATC doesn't have the obligation to pay attention on possible wake turbulence because it's not considered as possible.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 pm

ememic99 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:31 am
NDCDA62 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm
Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
I was also wondering how such accident fits to statistics (assuming wake turbulence was the cause) because it practically doesn't relate to any airframe/engine malfunction or crew decision. I don't know if that's correct but one airliner pilot told me that in case of parallel runways with displaced threshold even ATC doesn't have the obligation to pay attention on possible wake turbulence because it's not considered as possible.
As seen many times in NTSB accident reports regarding "wake turbulence", we will probably see something similar to the following...

"The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was an encounter with wake turbulence, which resulted in the pilot's loss of control of the airplane...." or

".....CAUSE: The pilot's inadequate planned approach and his failure to follow wake turbulence avoidance procedures by not staying above the glide-path of the preceding Boeing 757, which resulted in a vortex turbulence encounter. Contributing to the accident was the wake turbulence, and night conditions."

(You can find many examples by searching the data base, I just picked 2 for use as examples)

Usually, the PIC is "blamed" and his/her "lack of planning to avoid" is a CAUSE (in the accident report).

Here's some interesting info re: wake turbulence located in the AIM -
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... ion_3.html
Take a look specifically at how the wake turbulence sinks and how it moves "with the wind".

Here's a link on "avoidance" with some decent graphics -
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... urbulence/
Last edited by jb642DA on Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:54 pm

I'm sorry about "hijacking" the DA62 down in Dubai, but "wake turbulence" is a very important issue.
I think a lot of us do not constantly consider the dangers associated with it.

It doesn't take a "Super" (A380) to upset our aircraft. Flying through the wake turbulence of a same-sized airplane (relative to what we are flying) can "upset" us too!!

Here's one more good reference about wake turbulence from the FAA -

"AC 90-23G - Aircraft Wake Turbulence
Date Issued February 10, 2014
This advisory circular (AC) presents basic information on wake vortex behavior, alerts pilots to the hazards of aircraft wake turbulence, and recommends operational procedures to avoid wake turbulence encounters.
"
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 90-23G.pdf
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by ememic99 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:24 pm

jb642DA wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 pm
Usually, the PIC is "blamed" and his/her "lack of planning to avoid" is a CAUSE (in the accident report).
I'm not sure this can be the case here because I somehow doubt that pilot was informed about the activities going on parallel runway, so I doubt he had some basis for decision making. IMHO it's more like this case https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20170107-0 which triggered increasing distances even en-route.

I hope we'll see precise info in final report.

BTW Thanks for links provided.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:12 pm

I'm not sure about accident reports in other parts of the world, but the (US) NTSB uses that as a cause when wake turbulence is a factor. Basically, in the US, wake turbulence avoidance is the pilot's responsibility.

I'm not sure about specific procedures at other ATC facilities around the world, but I've received "wake turbulence" advisories (either via ATC or ATIS) in Europe and the Far East. However, I've never flown into Dubai.

Anyway, the loss of this DA62 is very tragic - Someone will be "blamed"!
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