DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Any DA50 related topics.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
ememic99
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Emir
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: SEMAD
Airport: LDZA LDVA

Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by ememic99 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:41 am

Such placard would leave me flying alone all the time.
User avatar
krellis
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Keith
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N859DF
Airport: GA04

Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by krellis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 pm

Boatguy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:09 am
I'm afraid the product itself contributes at best 50% to the overall success of a product. Distribution is a huge factor and Diamond is less than stellar when it comes to the distribution value chain. Product management, product marketing, customer communication, sales training, sales support and after sales customer support are all very weak at Diamond.

Meanwhile Cirrus is a marketing machine which creates a virtuous circle/cycle of happy customers who hire Cirrus certified CFIs, take their planes to the Cirrus service network, fly them to a COPA fly-in to tell each other about their great planes and attract more products, professionals and vendors to the Cirrus eco-system. Success leads to success. This is not something that just happens by itself. It takes a long term investment by shareholders and a focus by senior management.

Cirrus also has a financial advantage because they sell direct, keeping probably half of the margin that currently goes to Diamond distributors (think Apple Store or Tesla). Then they use that savings to invest in better marketing and support.

I do believe the Cirrus piston product line is essentially stale and yet another Perspective (+) feature isn't going to change that. But I also would not assume that Cirrus is not doing anything to evolve the SR22 product line. Cirrus could leap frog the diesel engine benefits with an entry level turbo-prop and change the game entirely the same way the Vision Jet brought down the jet entry point.

I wish Diamond every success, but they need to make a huge and sustained investment in marketing, distribution and customer support if they want to be a major player outside the training market.
No argument with you about Cirrus vs. Diamond. Given the well known lack of support from Diamond, why did you buy a new DA40NG?
User avatar
Boatguy
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Russ
Aircraft: DA40NG
Registration: N454M
Airport: O69

Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 121 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Boatguy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:08 am

krellis wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 pm
No argument with you about Cirrus vs. Diamond. Given the well known lack of support from Diamond, why did you buy a new DA40NG?
Modern aircraft with modern turbo-charged engine that I felt was a safer plane to fly as a new pilot.
User avatar
krellis
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Keith
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N859DF
Airport: GA04

Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by krellis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

Understood. Having flown both, I would agree - the handling qualities of the DA40 are far superior. The Cirrus is a better performer though and the support is much better (just look at the petition on the G1000). Hope you have better luck than some of us on support and upgrades.
User avatar
Carl
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
FIRST NAME: Carl
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N401CR
Airport: KMYF KSBD KEUG KBFI

Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:23 am

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Carl » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:27 am

Although I really want to avoid the dreaded "thread creep", and I am intrigued by the latest incarnation of the Diamond DA 50, I think that the TTX comments are appropriate and something Diamond should certainly keep in mind.

I am very well versed with the TTX, I have just over 3000 hours in the aircraft [including the Columbia 400] and my wife and I currently own and fly three yes three of these airplanes – a 2006 Columbia 400, 2015 TTX, and 2017 TTX. My SR 22 time is quite limited, but it is no stretch of the imagination to note that in my admittedly biased opinion the handling characteristics and build quality of the TTX are far better than the SR 22. I also find the G 2000 with its 14-inch screens and touchscreen controller to be superior to the G1000, including the NXI. And, all this for a fully – optioned aircraft [including flight into known icing protection] which was between 50 and $70,000 less than a similarly equipped SR 22. Even in the last year of production [2017], Cessna sold everyone that they built and reportedly made a profit – which was amazing since their marketing efforts were pathetic.

Still, serous outsold them 921. Why? As others have pointed out it was almost overwhelmingly due to the parachute. Even though the fatal accident rate remains roughly equal between the SR 22 and the Columbia/Cessna [and is significantly worse than the DA 40] there is still a perception of safety that appeals to pilots and non-pilot partners alike.

If Diamond can incorporate BRS and a diesel, they will have a serious competitor. Without BRS it will simply repeat the TTX experience and we all know how well that worked out. Perhaps they may do a little bit better courtesy of the diesel engine, but not very much.
User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N1446C
Airport: 6B6 Stowe MA

Posts: 343
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by TimS » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:08 pm

Boatguy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:09 am
I do believe the Cirrus piston product line is essentially stale and yet another Perspective (+) feature isn't going to change that. But I also would not assume that Cirrus is not doing anything to evolve the SR22 product line. Cirrus could leap frog the diesel engine benefits with an entry level turbo-prop and change the game entirely the same way the Vision Jet brought down the jet entry point.
I disagree. The number of small incremental changes really does add up.
e.g. G5 added an access door to the wheel pants for the tire valve. 64/40 split back seats, faster/new avionics...
Or even larger changes, 200lb UL increase and Flap speed increase from 119 to 150.

Basically, each generation has had incremental improvements, with a new release every four/five years. This is what Cessna, Mooney, Piper and the other manufacturers did from the late forties through the 70s. Since then, the model year changes actually have largely become meaningless.

To be fair, Piper seems to be trying now on the PA46 line, and also on the trainers.

Tim
User avatar
Star57
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Frank
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: C-FRZA 40.509
Airport: CYBW

Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:15 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Star57 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:44 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen, the winner for General Aviation will be the the following aircraft;

Fixed or retractable aircraft
250 knots @ 25000feet
TKS, Air conditioning
Allison/RR 250 full FADEC, 450 HP
BRS, Pilot and 3 passenger in confort
135 gallons of fuel, Range of 1000 NM @225 KIAS
Pressurized (Wishful Thinking) add 150K
G2000 NXI
1750 pounds gross weight


Price 995.000.00 US

Make it good looking to please Antoine :D or hire him as a design consultant
Mooney was supposed to build something like the above, that is what the Lancair IV can do, so if Diamond, Cessna or Cirrus can get their crap together they would sell a lot of them...
Don’t rule it out from Cirrus, it woud make a great stepping stone above the SR22T and just bellow the Jet

For now I will keep my Lancair ES, but for the above I would sacrifice my grandchild’s inheritance. Reality is that owner operated aircraft seldom carry more than 1 or 2 passengers, so a PA46 or TBM is beyond a lot of people budgets
Last edited by Star57 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Rich
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: N40XE
Airport: S39

Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 246 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Rich » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:50 pm

Star57 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:44 pm

Price 995.00 US
Always good to dream big :)
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal.
User avatar
Star57
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Frank
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: C-FRZA 40.509
Airport: CYBW

Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:15 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Star57 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:55 pm

Please allow me to dream.... :D
PeterK
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Peter
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: NONE

Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:27 pm
Has thanked: 8 times

Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by PeterK » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 pm

What's "full FADEC"? ;)
Post Reply