SureFly Electronic Ignition

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TomO
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by TomO »

In Dec. 2019, I installed a SureFly electronic ignition on the left side replacing that mag and the SlickStart. At the time I did not utilize the timing advance. Since it seems that some of the problems experienced may be related to the advance and I did not experience the other mentioned problems, I have not entered the discussion. I now have over 100 engine hours on the SureFly and will relate my experience utilizing the SureFly as a mag and SlickStart replacement without timing advance.

I installed the SureFly for reliability over a mag, to avoid 500 hour inspections/replacement, for possible fuel savings, and better starts. In the future I may connect the timing advance. My ignition harness was replaced 200-300 hours ago. I am using regular spark plugs and do not have a PowerFlow exhaust.

I do notice easier cold starts. There has been no difference in hot starts (never have been a problem).With lower power settings at lower altitudes I can lean further with a definite fuel burn decrease. At 8000 to 9000 ft there has been no hesitation or issues. At higher altitudes fuel burns and speeds seem the same as prior to the installation with slightly better leaning and cylinder temperatures.

To this point I have been happy with the electronic ignition.
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

After several flights following my last tweaks it looks like the intermittent cutouts are taken care of. I do need to work on my approach to cruise settings, though. With the much lower EGTs I have to rethink just what settings I use at max cruise. Max advance at 2400 RPM (about 33.4 degrees) happens at WOT around 7,500 ft. But normally on any kind of "real" trip I'm mostly at 9-11K. Often DA's are well above any of these numbers.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by MarkA »

Great to hear the bugs are getting worked out.

According to Mike Busch, he recommends to ignore the EGTs and just lean to keep the CHTs at reasonable levels. For example, lean to keep the CHTs below 380 for all phases of flight and for WOT cruise at ISA temperature or above, lean for CHTs at 365 or below either lean of peak or rich of peak. You probably have already seen it but I found his youtube webinar on "Leaning Basics" to be a good description of why this make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VfiPuheeGw


It will be interesting what sort of different you see in fuel economy in cruise flight.
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gsontheimer
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by gsontheimer »

I just bought a SureFly EI for my DA40 and the reason it is not installed yet is due to the fact it only arrived in Europe one day after my AI was completed. Now installation takes 800-1000 € just to sign the 337 form without the work done due to the requirements to have an FAA A&P travel to my maintenance facility.

Just found this thread and the PIREPS you all posted. Thank you very much!! So I have 3 options, I guess:

1. SureFly on L/H side as a SlickStart and mag replacement w/o timing advance (like TomO reported w/o problems)
2. SureFly on L/H side as Slickstart and mag replacement but with timing advance (Rich had trouble initially)
3. SureFly on R/H side retaining the SlickStart with timing advance (saramse had no problems, at least not due to SF)

What option should I choose? Please give me your votes!

My harness is 12 years old (~1.200 hrs) with fine wire plugs: Should I really replace it? It worked fine with my stock mags.
Gerhard

N937DS: DA40.992 (2008 XLS)
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

gsontheimer wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:45 pm
I just bought a SureFly EI for my DA40 and the reason it is not installed yet is due to the fact it only arrived in Europe one day after my AI was completed. Now installation takes 800-1000 € just to sign the 337 form without the work done due to the requirements to have an FAA A&P travel to my maintenance facility.

Just found this thread and the PIREPS you all posted. Thank you very much!! So I have 3 options, I guess:

1. SureFly on L/H side as a SlickStart and mag replacement w/o timing advance (like TomO reported w/o problems)
2. SureFly on L/H side as Slickstart and mag replacement but with timing advance (Rich had trouble initially)
3. SureFly on R/H side retaining the SlickStart with timing advance (saramse had no problems, at least not due to SF)

What option should I choose? Please give me your votes!

My harness is 12 years old (~1.200 hrs) with fine wire plugs: Should I really replace it? It worked fine with my stock mags.
In theory changing out the right mag would be more desirable, as both systems would then aid in the starting sequence. A bit more trouble, but it's up to you. One non-theoretical counterargument is if you change out the left mag and the engine doesn't start right away you know immediately that you have blown the SF fuse while groping around in the engine compartment :roll:

The installation documents state it is not required to change out your harness (mine is 18 years old) or plugs (12 years?). But I've seen another SF document my mechanic came across that says SF won't warrant the unit unless the harness and plugs have been changed.

Using the advance feature will result in higher CHTs at altitude. As long as they're not enough higher to be a problem you're fine. Changing the option after installation pretty much requires removal of the SIM, due to the location of the dip switches. Unless maybe you've got the skilled hands of a neurosurgeon or street magician. 8-)

I think my difficulties are past. But the inconsistent nature of my incidents and given that I've only had a few flights since my latest tweaks my confidence this is true is limited.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Here's something I found and corrected today:

While checking this and that in the engine compartment I happened to be looking at just the right place to notice that the 1/8" tube that feeds manifold pressure had become trapped between the oil cooler line and one of the spark plug leads. This was clearly pinching the line quite a bit. I would guess almost pinched off. Given the fact the engine moves around relative to the airframe and the other end of the hose is fixed to the oil cooler it's like there is potentially movement of this line relative to the tubing and plug lead. It wasn't something we noticed on installation, but there was enough slack in this tubing so it could fall down and get wedged in there. I rerouted the tubing behind the oil cooler line so it has no risk of getting pinched anywhere else.

This would be specific to replacement of the left mag, but something to check in any case. I have no idea what any predictable response the Surefly might have upon having this thing get pinched off, but it surely shouldn't be ignored.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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saramse
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by saramse »

gsontheimer wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:45 pm
I just bought a SureFly EI for my DA40 and the reason it is not installed yet is due to the fact it only arrived in Europe one day after my AI was completed. Now installation takes 800-1000 € just to sign the 337 form without the work done due to the requirements to have an FAA A&P travel to my maintenance facility.

Just found this thread and the PIREPS you all posted. Thank you very much!! So I have 3 options, I guess:

1. SureFly on L/H side as a SlickStart and mag replacement w/o timing advance (like TomO reported w/o problems)
2. SureFly on L/H side as Slickstart and mag replacement but with timing advance (Rich had trouble initially)
3. SureFly on R/H side retaining the SlickStart with timing advance (saramse had no problems, at least not due to SF)

What option should I choose? Please give me your votes!

My harness is 12 years old (~1.200 hrs) with fine wire plugs: Should I really replace it? It worked fine with my stock mags.
Gerhard,

This is Scott (saramse), just saw your request for input, so...….....Following up on #3 above, I disconnected the timing advance feature of the SureFly on 5/14/20. This required removal of the SureFly to reset the pins, and closing off the MP connections...….let me explain why...….

Since the incident I documented previously on 4/28/20, I have completed 15 flights, 4 at altitudes >6500'. Of those, 2 of the 4 had multiple momentary stumbles (while climbing in the 6500-8500' range) like Rich previously described. I have reviewed the G1000 data for these flights, but due to the short duration of these events (1-2 sec stumbles), I could not see any changes within the recorded data (e.g. EGT's or FF). My A&P conferred with SureFly and they have no explanation or suggestions beyond those previously reported and checked (check and secure all wiring connections, etc.). These stumbles are of course very disconcerting to my passengers (esp. my wife), so I decided to disconnect the timing advance feature rather than risk any further stumble incidents and loss of confidence by my passengers.

I have since completed 6 additional flights, all at <5000', except one at 7500', I have not had any new stumbles. I will be completing additional flights at higher altitudes this weekend, so will report back my observations.
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gsontheimer
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by gsontheimer »

Hello Scott, thank you for debugging! Your reports are very much appreciated! In this case I will delay my installation and wait it out.
Gerhard

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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

A data point from my flight today, after the few tweaks previously mentioned:

Altitude 10,500, DA 11,880, OAT 8 deg C.
WOT (appx.18.5 " MAP), 2400 RPM, 9 GPH (~ 60% power)
EGT ~1400, CHT. ~380,
KIAS: 117, KTAS: 140

No hiccups from the SF this flight.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Diamond_Dan »

Just went into annual and the mags are due for 500 hr inspection. My A&P has talked me into installing a SureFly. He discussed with a SureFly rep at length and they are recommending to replace the right mag and skip the advanced timing. Biting my nails a bit, I hope I don't have any problems. Outside of it being maintenance-free, I am not sure of the benefit. My airport is near sea level and I rarely fly at high altitudes, partly due to the length of trips I usually take.
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