Jean wrote:Rick, do you always fly WOT, at any altitude ?
Yes - I run WOT from takeoff until I want to slow down. I usually cruise between 8000' and 10000', unless winds or weather dictate otherwise, so the MP is always less than my typical cruise RPMs anyway, at altitude.
Everything I've read says squaring the MP and RPM serves no purpose in our engine. Does anyone have any information or advice otherwise?
I flew today with my mechanic. 4500 ft. I had MP at 26 and RPM at 2200, leaned to maybe 50 ROP.
He said the engine was not running smooth enough and I could fry the valves. Set it to 24 squared and a muuuuch higher FF. it did run smoother but I am not convinced...
To update you all on the progress. We thought there was a cooling problem but it turned out to be a problem with the fuel flow. Which has eluded us for the past few weeks. However, today after speaking with the guys at precision aeromotive I believe we have identified the issue and we already have some possible solutions. So once we get the fuel flowing properly the plane will cool just fine and I'll do some official tests and hopefully a side by side comparison (a race to the top of Mt St. Helens).
For now I'll give a few numbers. At 10,500 it seems that this is a 155 knot machine and at 16,500 it is still a 155 knot machine. A few days ago I climbed a steady 500 fpm from 300' to 10,500. Just before leveling off I notices 123 kTAS. Then after a few minutes of level flight I checked again and noticed 155 kTAS. Don't recall the MP but I guess it was 24 or 25" @ 2400.
On another post Tim gave some numbers for the NA da40 at 16,500. So I dug out my data from a flight from KAPA to KDRO which was at 16,500. Below is the comparison.
Brock wrote:
Tim wrote:Flying back from Lake Tahoe today (a sublimely beautiful place for an airport and benign weather for a change), I flew for a few minutes at FL 165. I was on oxygen of course. The aircraft performed very well with TAS gradually increasing to 130 knots, around 97 TAS, 16.2" MP and 2200 rpm. 6.8 gph.
The Density Altitude was 18,266 feet.
Tim, thanks for sharing this info above. I was needing something to compare the supercharged plane with. On my recent flight from KAPA to KDRO I had the following #'s.
IA: 16,500
Alt: 30.09
DA 18,756 (seems cirrusreports does not show this)
MP: 20.2
GPH: 7.9
IA: 117
TAS: 156
I'll post more on the dedicated thread. Don't mean to change the subject.
Once the we get the supercharger to play nice with the fuel servo, which means we will once again have normal fuel flows and normal temps, then I'll start posting public data files. From what I've seen at altitude I don't think cooling will be an issue at all. More later...
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Hi All,
Had a great test flight yesterday and finally I am satisfied. Rod at ForcedAeroMotive will be sending me a letter-to-all which I will post here. Basically now that this is all figured out he needs several firm commitments before starting the expensive STC process.
So Here is my test data. The goal of this flight test was to fly as high as legal (I'm not ifr current) and as fast (fpm) as practical and not go over 400 degrees CHT. As you will see from the data I did go over 400 but that was because I was not focused on the temps at all times. Also upon close examination you will see that at altitude when I went above 400 it was because I leaned too much. There was plenty of fuel reserve I was just being stingy and trying to keep the EGT's registering on the bottom of the temp gauge. Also I realize that that I could have climbed faster much of the flight but in the end I opted to just set in 600' fpm in the KAP-140 and see what happens.
So here is some basic info:
Was able to maintain 25/2500 until about 10,500'
Then was able to maintain 24/2500 until 11,400'
Then I went to 2680 rpm and got 24.4" and continued my climb.
Was back down to 24" at full rpm at 12,100'.
I needed the fuel pump at 13,400 but later turned it off after I was able to reduce the fuel flow a bit. Turned it back on though for good measure.
It took almost exactly 30 minutes to climb from 328' to 17,569 MSL for a average climb of 574 fpm.
Max PA was 17,956'. Legal but cutting it close.
The G1000 altitude bug maxed out at 16,500 but the KAP-140 was happy to go higher.
Mag timing was set to 25 degrees for this flight.
Did not do any testing except for this climb. Didn't care to linger at 17,500 even though my O2 was on max.
"cirrusreports.com/flights/N8QQ/"
I tried to upload the csv data file but was unable to to forum restrictions. So if you want the actual file perhaps the administrator can help here.
I realize this is one very narrow/specific test but it was what I needed before being satisfied with the product. No doubt you guys have some particular data you would like to see. If so just ask and I'll see about working it into one of my next flights.
Please don't ask for speed tests below 7000'. If you are a flat-lander and seldom cruise above 7000' or don't ever take-off above 5000' then I would guess you will be happier remaining normally aspirated. This is still a 180 hp engine and so the SuperCharger does not make sense unless you are power limited due to high density altitudes.
On the subject of speed I have observed that the DA40 seems to have a 155 knot hull (at least with 180 hp). I've done 157 ktas at 6,500 with 29"/2680 rpm and I've done 155 ktas at 16,500 at 20.1"/forgot-the-rpm. But then again it seems that I've gained 25 ktas over normally aspirated engines at 16,5.
Later...
Attachments
N8QQ_17,5-test.jpg (86.47 KiB) Viewed 3799 times
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
I am interested as there are a lot of mountains out west and sometimes heat too. I wonder what the ball park price for the full equipment plus install will be? Also, what downpayment. I am sure there are several others who've been following your progress with great interest also.
Tim
I'm new to this form but have been flying DA40's, two now, for 9 years. I have followed your SuperCharged posts with great interest. I'm a flat lander now, Nebraska, but home is CO and fly there fairly frequently. I have taken mountain instruction and had my normally aspirated Diamond DA40 625DS up to 17500 - I and the instructor were impressed. Climb was obviously weak and weather happened to be perfect and he helped me maximize engine performance. I love my Diamond and would sincerely love to use it in the mountains when I return to CO full time in three years. The issue will of course be the cost. I'm definitely interested in knowing more.
Rod Lusk
N625DS
I have the following planned for my next test flight.
-Absolute Max roc between 9,500 and 12,500
-Max cruise at 11,500 and 12,500 both ROP and LOP
-Find the sweet spot (Fastest speed altitude).
Would be nice for someone to do the same tests in their DA40 so we have some real comparative data. It should be done in a plane with pf, speed gear, and 50 gal tank.
Won't be able to fly again until the end of next week. Will let you know how it come out.
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
I'm on the road and can't wait to get home to do the next flight tests. But anyway Rod and I are convinced this is a working modification. So Rod has sent me the following to distribute. Plz excuse any typos as I'm trying to do this on my tablet. Perhaps someone can repost this on the other forum for me. Thnx.
July 18, 2011
Forced Aeromotive Technologies would like to certify “Brock’s blower” for the Diamond DA-40. FAT currently has 8 FAA and EASA STCs for supercharging aircraft and engines that we received through the certification process. We are the only company certifying belt driven superchargers and have become quite familiar with the process and regulations as they apply to our modifications. Knowing the process and what is involved, the remaining question is always “can enough of these be sold to justify the expense of certification?
When we certified the Cirrus SR22 supercharger we took 25 deposits (refundable) and with those commitments proceeded with some confidence to certification. This procedure is becoming more common in the industry for these more expensive STC projects. In return for their deposits, these individuals received a reduced price.
Our target price for the DA-40 supercharger kit is $24,500.00 and we will make our best effort to keep the price from going higher. We are seeking 25 owners to place deposits of $10,000.00 and in return FAT will guarantee a price of $19,500.00 for those individuals, even if the target price should increase over time. These deposits will be refundable until 2 weeks after notification of receipt of the STC. We fully expect to refund some of them for the obvious reasons, lost medical, sold the aircraft, etc. The certification period is expected to be 6-15 months. We are anxious to get started so if you plan to make a deposit please contact Rod Sage at:
Forced Aeromotive Technologies,Inc
7161 S. Peoria St 18E Englewood, CO 80112
720-348 0622 forcedaeromotive.com/
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Fuel flows and temps were great. This is the first flight after adjusting the fuel system one final increment.
Here is what I came up with.
New max continuous TAS is 164 at 8,500
Other max airspeeds
12,400' 161 TAS, 24.00"/2680rpm
11,485' 162 TAS, 24.78"/2680rpm
10,500' 161 TAS, 25.73"/2680rpm
09,470' 162 TAS, 26.70"/2680rpm
08,486' 164 TAS, 27.61"/2680rpm
07,473' 164 TAS, 28.75"/2680rpm
I would say that the "sweet spot" is at 12,500 at 161 TAS & 24". Might still be able to keep 161 TAS up higher with lower MP & fuel flow. But that is a test for another day as my O2 bottle needs filling.
New (average) max climb rate from 306 to 12,545 is 770 fpm
Max all out climb from 9,600 to 10,600 was 1000 fpm.
Max all out climb from 9,600 to 12,500 was 773 fpm.
All this was done with little regard for fuel economy. From 11,500 to 12,500 I got slower than Vy so this probably hurt my climb rate a bit. I think using t/o flaps at these higher altitudes would improve the these higher altitude climbs but most pilots feel this is a strange practice. So I did not do it. Personally I feel take-off flaps at altitude to get another 100 or 200 fpm is good technique provided you are in the white arc anyway.
This forum has been strangely quiet. What do you folks think of all this?
File is posted on cirrus at cirrusreports.com/flights/N8QQ. I'll also try to upload to this site.
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Brock:
I have sent off messages to two Diamond dealers asking what they think this would do to the value of the plane. They both have expressed a lot of interest and were unaware of the efforts. Both wanted to see more data and flight tests. I have asked permission to post their comments but haven't heard back from them yet. Of course they can't saw what effect it will have on the value of the plane but both thought there would be a number of their contacts that would be interested. Both did see a problem with and STC on this engine. The new performance data looks great - it falls within the "bump" one of them was hoping for. One wanted to know if you had a power exhaust and a metal or three blade Hartzel composite prop - he thought that would make a difference. Any chance of down loading the test flights to look at performance?
Thanks for your efforts. I'm VERY interested.
Rod
N625DS
) the climb rate seems impressive.