Inset Map

Any DA42 related topics.

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TwinStarScott
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Re: Inset Map

Post by TwinStarScott » Sat May 25, 2019 3:23 am

The systems and sensors are all fine but the software is antiquated due to issues we know (ownership, focus, relations, etc.).

We are not talking about anything other than software features that have been developed and distributed widely, but not to you for your airplanes. Annoying to be sure.
Agreed* Peter and thanks for shedding light on this confusing situation!

It is most unfortunate it took the G1000 petition to formally draw some long overdue attention to this still unresolved situation - as the FUD factor continues for legacy owners.

*with only one exception to your software observation - there is a single hardware component requirement to this situation, as according to CFI Dave, a GIA63W is mandatory to receive the "free" ADS-B Wx stream.

Why an LRU WAAS box is also needed to receive FIS-B Wx remains a mystery to me, given the GTX-345R has its own built-in WAAS capabilities (only non-TSO'd for navigation).

FUD = fear, uncertainty and doubt (an acronym coined by Boatguy in the G1000 thread)
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Re: Inset Map

Post by TwinStarScott » Sat May 25, 2019 3:58 am

I can also say I'm very familiar with the inventors of and most of the technologies we are discussing and the services and products built around them.
I write this as a Californian who sees them rarely
Peter, does this happen to also include Max Trescott?
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Re: Inset Map

Post by Boatguy » Sat May 25, 2019 4:07 am

Earlier this month I flew from the east coast to California while there was an enormous amount of thunderstorm activity on an arc from Houston to Pittsburgh. The Nexrad radar was very good and we used it to avoid the nasty stuff by a wide margin, diverting our plan the first day from Baton Rouge to Monroe, LA (KMLU), and the second day from Graham, TX (KRPH) to Mineral Wells (KMWL).

The second diversion was interesting because the METARs (via ADSB) were reporting good conditions at Graham, but the Nexrad looked ominous. We diverted to KMWL, refueled, departed and flew around the perimeter of what we could see later see both visually and on Nexrad, towards Graham.

We had no interest in using Nexrad tactically, but we appreciated the ability to see 100-200 miles ahead or to the side and change course as needed.

But Nexrad does not tell all. After getting past the nasty stuff at Graham, and then some rapidly building convective activity to the west, we reached the "clear" with just some puffy's below us at maybe 6,000' (we were at 12,000'). Then we had the roughest 45minutes of the entire trip; it didn't smooth out until we crossed into New Mexico.

And back to the original question, the "age" shown on the legend is a useful guide to how old the data is which could be interpreted glass half empty or full; we always assumed it was getting worse!
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Re: Inset Map

Post by pietromarx » Sat May 25, 2019 5:22 am

ScottSutton wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:23 am
\*with only one exception to your software observation - there is a single hardware component requirement to this situation, as according to CFI Dave, a GIA63W is mandatory to receive the "free" ADS-B Wx stream.

Why an LRU WAAS box is also needed to receive FIS-B Wx remains a mystery to me, given the GTX-345R has its own built-in WAAS capabilities (only non-TSO'd for navigation).

FUD = fear, uncertainty and doubt (an acronym coined by Boatguy in the G1000 thread)
The GIA63W is a requirement if you are using the G1000 as a location source for the GTX-345R, but not for displaying FIS-B weather. Since the G1000s in the Diamonds can't be used as a location source (due to, ahem, software), then it doesn't matter since people install the GTX-345R with its own GPS. Either way, the GTX-345R provides FIS-B weather to any display that can show the data (software...) over the digital interfaces (RS-422, etc., fully supported by the G1000). The GIAs aren't even mentioned in the GTX-345R installation manuals...
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Re: Inset Map

Post by TwinStarScott » Sat May 25, 2019 7:32 am

Given all this information and regardless of your LRU WAAS unit:

it seems important for the DA40 owners who have yet to equip with a GTX-345R, they will need to verify with their avionics shop that their aircraft has been updated to software version 370.23.

As an aside, of the 55 DA40's that entered their system software, here are the numbers by version number (out of 101 aircraft):

321.22 = 27 (XM Wx only)
321.23 = 26 (both ADSB & XM)
370.17 = 2 (both ADSB & XM) with the higher version number, I'm assuming this will handle both Wx inputs
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Re: Inset Map

Post by CFIDave » Sat May 25, 2019 6:13 pm

Having a WAAS GPS (specifically a pair of GIA63Ws) does not *directly* determine whether a Lycoming DA40 Legacy G1000 can display ADS-B IN weather or not. Even with GIA63Ws and software version .23, owners must purchase the $800 more expensive version of the GTX345R that includes a built-in WAAS position source (that includes a 3rd GPS antenna connection). None of the Lycoming DA40 software will permit the GTX345R to take advantage of the plane's pre-existing WAAS GPS as a position source.

Instead, it's the *software* that affects whether ADS-B weather can be shown on PFD/MFD displays: G1000 software .23 can only be installed in Lycoming DA40s with GIA63Ws, and that's the only software version for these aircraft that will display ADS-B weather on the PFD/MFD. DA40s without WAAS GPSs (i.e., those with GIA63s without the "W") can only run software version .22, and that's why these aircraft can't show ADS-B weather on their G1000 displays.
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Re: Inset Map

Post by pietromarx » Sat May 25, 2019 8:15 pm

CFIDave wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:13 pm
Having a WAAS GPS (specifically a pair of GIA63Ws) does not *directly* determine whether a Lycoming DA40 Legacy G1000 can display ADS-B IN weather or not. Even with GIA63Ws and software version .23, owners must purchase the $800 more expensive version of the GTX345R that includes a built-in WAAS position source (that includes a 3rd GPS antenna connection). None of the Lycoming DA40 software will permit the GTX345R to take advantage of the plane's pre-existing WAAS GPS as a position source.

Instead, it's the *software* that affects whether ADS-B weather can be shown on PFD/MFD displays: G1000 software .23 can only be installed in Lycoming DA40s with GIA63Ws, and that's the only software version for these aircraft that will display ADS-B weather on the PFD/MFD. DA40s without WAAS GPSs (i.e., those with GIA63s without the "W") can only run software version .22, and that's why these aircraft can't show ADS-B weather on their G1000 displays.
This is correct.

- The issue with the GIA-63Ws not being able to be a GPS input into the GTX-345Rs is due to lack of software functionality in the WAAS GIAs (WAAS being required by the ADS-B standard).
- The issue with the G1000s not being able to show FIS-B data from the GTX-345Rs is also due to a lack of software functionality in the WAAS and non-WAAS GIAs.

The hardware isn't the issue, though Garmin and Diamond have chosen not to implement the functionality on our hardware. There are many other installations with the same hardware which allow the GTX-345R to be installed without an additional GPS source and where the displays show FIS-B.
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Re: Inset Map

Post by TwinStarScott » Sat May 25, 2019 9:18 pm

There are many other installations with the same hardware which allow the GTX-345R to be installed without an additional GPS source and where the displays show FIS-B.
Just a guess here Peter, is Cirrus one of the OEM's that provides for across the board (fleet) access to this feature? And is Diamond in the majority or minority, of OEM's, when it comes to having a high percentage of their aircraft unable to access FIS-B Wx?
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Re: Inset Map

Post by pietromarx » Sun May 26, 2019 1:19 am

I couldn't say, but I'll make two comments:

1. The FAA and NOAA folks went through a lot of effort to make FIS-B weather available to us. It is unique in the world. I imagine they want us to have access to the weather.

2. Aircraft and avionics vendors seem to orphan their customers almost as often as automobile and boat vendors orphan their customers (often! Always?)...

Just my $0.02.


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Re: Inset Map

Post by Boatguy » Sun May 26, 2019 4:46 pm

pietromarx wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 1:19 am
1. The FAA and NOAA folks went through a lot of effort to make FIS-B weather available to us. It is unique in the world. I imagine they want us to have access to the weather.

2. Aircraft and avionics vendors seem to orphan their customers almost as often as automobile and boat vendors orphan their customers (often! Always?)...
1. They absolutely did and now it would behove them to not stand in the way of everyone getting access per the separate thread on legacy G1000 systems.

2. Recreational boats, the equivalent of GA, are essentially unregulated and I don't believe the concept of being abandoned or not can be applied. The only limitation to upgrading a boat is the owner's willingness to spend. What's odd is that ships, which are loosely regulated, went through the equivalent of the ADSB transition (AIS) 15-20yrs before aircraft, followed fairly quickly by recreational boats.

With regard to the original question about Cirrus, I posed that question on a COPA forum. The responses seemed to indicate that Cirrus owners don't feel as abandoned as they continue to get regular software updates for older aircraft, but there are eventually limitations on what can be done with legacy hardware.
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