Power off 180

[CFIDave]

For Commercial power off 180 degree spot landings, you have 3 tools in your "toolbox" to use:
- when/where to put in more flaps
- how steeply (longer vs. shorter path) to turn back to the runway
- forward slips

In a DA40 -- a low-drag plane that "really wants to fly" and "doesn't want to come down" -- the forward slip especially is your friend. Plan to come in high, and then on short final use a forward slip (i.e., rudder to the floor one direction, with opposite stick to aim towards the runway), causing the plane to sink without picking up airspeed. Then right before the touchdown point, release the rudder and the plane will immediately straighten and level out in time for the flare. It's a marvelous tool for hitting the touchdown point; the DA40 slips really nicely.

I like this... but it is easy to build up too much speed and go whipping by the point.

The advantage of a forward slip is that it lets you increase your rate of descent *without* picking up airspeed. You release the rudder (that you've been holding to the floor) when you reach your desired altitude above the runway.

[alanhawse]

Working on commercial maneuvers and could use some pointers! Can anyone give some suggestions of what may have worked for them to dial in consistency? Also steep turns, any things that may make everything flow a littlebetter. Thanks for any insight.

On my commercial checkride I started into the steep turns... and my phone rang ... and it was bluetooth connected. That was fun...

Then 1/2 through the first turn ATC asked me to descend 500 feet... so I added in the descent during the turn.. and nailed it. My steep was turn a descending left steep turn.

Alan

[alanhawse]

For Commercial power off 180 degree spot landings, you have 3 tools in your "toolbox" to use:
- when/where to put in more flaps
- how steeply (longer vs. shorter path) to turn back to the runway
- forward slips

In a DA40 -- a low-drag plane that "really wants to fly" and "doesn't want to come down" -- the forward slip especially is your friend. Plan to come in high, and then on short final use a forward slip (i.e., rudder to the floor one direction, with opposite stick to aim towards the runway), causing the plane to sink without picking up airspeed. Then right before the touchdown point, release the rudder and the plane will immediately straighten and level out in time for the flare. It's a marvelous tool for hitting the touchdown point; the DA40 slips really nicely.

I like this... but it is easy to build up too much speed and go whipping by the point.

The advantage of a forward slip is that it lets you increase your rate of descent *without* picking up airspeed. You release the rudder (that you've been holding to the floor) when you reach your desired altitude above the runway.

Yes... unless you push down too much in which case you can find yourself booking it when you let off the slip. Though I suppose the "low fuel" enunciator warns you of that

[TAILspin38]

Thanks for the advice Alan. What did you find was the sweet spot for MP & RPM settings?

[Rich]

The original question seemed to be regarding the 180 degree power-off to landing. Yet there are these MAP settings in the responses which are irrelevant. It's minimum power in the NG (idle in the -180) or engine shut down if you're really, really, adventurous and confident.

And in a descending turn you don't hold your nose on the horizon as on a level turn. also the descending turn for this maneuver may or may not be "steep". It depends on the circumstance.

I have heard that lately the FAA seems to be viewing slipping on descent as a disfavored technique. The only alternative really would be S-turning or flying back-side of the power curve if high. This can be tricky, though I sometimes use it for practice.

[dant]

When I practice power off 180s in the DA40-180 for engine out glide practice, if I pull the power abeam the numbers I usually have to fly straight for a good 10+ seconds before turning to a base if I don't want people to catch me slippin'.

[TAILspin38]

Thanks Dan, I have been going 5 seconds before turning base. I'll see how it goes with 10. It seems for the most part I will have to count about 4 stripes in front of touch down for my aiming point.

[CFIDave]

...if I don't want people to catch me slippin'.

I have heard that lately the FAA seems to be viewing slipping on descent as a disfavored technique

I don't understand where people have been hearing that forward slips have been discredited. It's a technique that's as old as GA flying: Since at least the 1930s, pilots flying small GA planes without flaps, e.g., tube-and-fabric taildraggers like Cubs, Champs, biplanes, etc. have routinely been using forward slips as a technique for controlling altitude on final.

[Rich]

...if I don't want people to catch me slippin'.

I have heard that lately the FAA seems to be viewing slipping on descent as a disfavored technique

I don't understand where people have been hearing that forward slips have been discredited. It's a technique that's as old as GA flying: Since at least the 1930s, pilots flying small GA planes without flaps, e.g., tube-and-fabric taildraggers like Cubs, Champs, biplanes, etc. have routinely been using forward slips as a technique for controlling altitude on final.

I probably shouldn't have posted that, since I can't find a reference to it now. But there have long been dire warnings about slipping with flaps, for example.

I can think of one case where neither flaps not slipping is available: The original Ercoupe. I've had occasion to fly one with the rudder pedal conversion. But the rudder (only one works at a time) is so feeble it hardly matters.

Sticking to the DA40, the effectiveness of slipping varies with which rudder you have. There's also the caveat that is true for most planes. This is that the airspeed indicator loses accuracy in a slip.

[midlifeflyer]

...if I don't want people to catch me slippin'.

I have heard that lately the FAA seems to be viewing slipping on descent as a disfavored technique

I don't understand where people have been hearing that forward slips have been discredited. It's a technique that's as old as GA flying: Since at least the 1930s, pilots flying small GA planes without flaps, e.g., tube-and-fabric taildraggers like Cubs, Champs, biplanes, etc. have routinely been using forward slips as a technique for controlling altitude on final.

Some people who have no idea what a slip is confusing them with skids is the most likely culprit.

There is exactly zero from the FAA disfavoring slips. Heck, even if we “crab and kick” fir a crosswind landing, we ultimately slip.