Guidance for ADS-B Decision
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- rwtucker
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1283
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm
- First Name: Rob
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N831BA
- Airports: KFFZ KEUL
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 110 times
Guidance for ADS-B Decision
Fellow DAN Members,
Life happens and for me it has meant not being in a position to fly since last summer. I anticipate getting back in the air this spring and will soon face the ADS-B decision. Like many of you, I have been holding off for an integrated solution.
Because of where I fly, my goal would be to keep my TCAS functional and to show both TCAS and ADS-B targets on the G1000 MFD. The last I heard, Diamond (or Garmin) has not been willing to create that software solution.
Soon, I will need the guidance from those of you who have worked through this and are much wiser than me. If I were to implement ADS-B now, what solution comes closest to my goal? Are other DAN members still waiting for a full solution? If so, does anyone have any information as to if and when it will arrive?
Thanks and with appreciation.
Rob
Life happens and for me it has meant not being in a position to fly since last summer. I anticipate getting back in the air this spring and will soon face the ADS-B decision. Like many of you, I have been holding off for an integrated solution.
Because of where I fly, my goal would be to keep my TCAS functional and to show both TCAS and ADS-B targets on the G1000 MFD. The last I heard, Diamond (or Garmin) has not been willing to create that software solution.
Soon, I will need the guidance from those of you who have worked through this and are much wiser than me. If I were to implement ADS-B now, what solution comes closest to my goal? Are other DAN members still waiting for a full solution? If so, does anyone have any information as to if and when it will arrive?
Thanks and with appreciation.
Rob
- Chris
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:34 am
- First Name: Chris
- Aircraft Type: DA42NG
- Aircraft Registration: N449TS
- Airports: KHIO
- Has thanked: 1066 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
I'm pretty sure that particular feature is supported by the Garmin GTX-345R. The Avidyne TAS connects to the 345R, which merges the two data sets (removing duplicates) before displaying the combined data on the G1000 MFD. ADS-B targets have N-numbers and direction vectors while the TAS targets show up as before.
- Rick
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm
- First Name: Rick
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NONE
- Airports: KROA
- Has thanked: 107 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
Chris is correct - my 2007 DA40 had TAS before my ADS-B upgrade last December, when I had the GTX345R installed. I now receive traffic from both sources, merged on the MFD traffic display. By merged, I mean that I only see each target once, either as an ADS target (with directional arrow and tail number), OR as an old-style diamond (no tail number available) if only the TAS is picking it up but not ADS-B. At least, that's been my experience so far.Chris wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 pmI'm pretty sure that particular feature is supported by the Garmin GTX-345R. The Avidyne TAS connects to the 345R, which merges the two data sets (removing duplicates) before displaying the combined data on the G1000 MFD. ADS-B targets have N-numbers and direction vectors while the TAS targets show up as before.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
- CFIDave
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2682
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N333GX
- Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
- Has thanked: 234 times
- Been thanked: 1480 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
As Chris and Rick both noted, the GTX345R will correlate active traffic TAS targets with ADS-B In targets for your display.
What some people were waiting on Diamond/Garmin to provide was a software upgrade for the Lycoming DA40 G1000 that could potentially provide access to the WAAS position source already built-in (via GIA63Ws) on 2008+ DA40 aircraft. This G1000 software already exists for DA42NG and -VI aircraft with WAAS legacy G1000s, but not for the DA40.
Without this software, you have to purchase an $800 more expensive variant of the GTX345R that has its own built-in WAAS position source, AND have your installer rig up a 3rd GPS antenna (you already have 2) just for the GTX345R. This is the solution that all G1000 DA40 owners have been installing, available today.
What some people were waiting on Diamond/Garmin to provide was a software upgrade for the Lycoming DA40 G1000 that could potentially provide access to the WAAS position source already built-in (via GIA63Ws) on 2008+ DA40 aircraft. This G1000 software already exists for DA42NG and -VI aircraft with WAAS legacy G1000s, but not for the DA40.
Without this software, you have to purchase an $800 more expensive variant of the GTX345R that has its own built-in WAAS position source, AND have your installer rig up a 3rd GPS antenna (you already have 2) just for the GTX345R. This is the solution that all G1000 DA40 owners have been installing, available today.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Chris B
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 843
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:52 am
- First Name: Chris
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N171CB
- Airports: KRHV
- Has thanked: 210 times
- Been thanked: 215 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
IME the wide variability in quotes (<$8k vs. >$11k) is driven by whether this 3rd GPS antenna is the external COM/GPS or internal XM/GPS combo. The external antenna cost is ~3x, and installation requires either a pricey "doubler" kit (per OSB40-084) or non-trivial composite work with field approval.
The internal antenna works great in the non-carbon-fiber DA40 tail boom. Otherwise the internal XM antenna would not work. In my case the total cost was about $1k more than the initial quote for installing a non-WAAS GTX345R, before the installer realized that this was not (yet?) possible.
One very small consolation of installing the 3rd antenna is that the GTX345R may provide redundant positioning on a tablet if the G1000 fails, with an antenna far from the other two. Also, the GTX345R can accept multiple position sources, so if Diamond eventually releases updated firmware, the G1000 source can provide redundant ADS-B positioning. IMO not worth an additional ~$1k, but better than the proverbial poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
Chris
- BRS
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:44 am
- First Name: Brock
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N8QQ
- Airports: W52
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
Can the GTX345R also drive the position data for the 406 ELT's. If so it might be good to have the installer bring out a lead to do so.
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Fly and EAB Sportsman
- CFIDave
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2682
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N333GX
- Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
- Has thanked: 234 times
- Been thanked: 1480 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
The GTX345R provides GPS position wirelessly via Bluetooth. So the ELT would need to receive a Bluetooth wireless signal; I don't know that a wired signal lead with GPS position from the GTX345R is possible.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- greg
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:46 am
- First Name: Greg
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Airports:
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 13 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
It doesn't always work! Two years after installation of the GTX345 in my plane, Garmin and the avionics shop haven't been able to get the two to work together. I can get either ADS-B or TAS, but not both. Since ADS-B isn't going to be mandatory here for VFR aircraft, having TAS is important for me. Next step is to make the plane available "for about a week" with me doing the flying so that Garmin can try to debug it. It might have to wait until I retire to have that amount of spare time away from home base...Chris wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 pmI'm pretty sure that particular feature is supported by the Garmin GTX-345R. The Avidyne TAS connects to the 345R, which merges the two data sets (removing duplicates) before displaying the combined data on the G1000 MFD. ADS-B targets have N-numbers and direction vectors while the TAS targets show up as before.
Still, most people seem to have managed to get it working, so I wouldn't hold off just because my installation has failed. I do like the ADS-B solution - it has made situational awareness much easier when you can match the calling on the radio with a picture on the MFD.
- pietromarx
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
- Airports: KWHP
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 157 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
Ummm, interesting. I wonder what makes your plane different than others. The installation for the DA-40 takes inputs from both the TAS-600 (or whatever your traffic system is) and ADS-B and does the following process within the GTX-345R before being sent to the G1000:It doesn't always work! Two years after installation of the GTX345 in my plane, Garmin and the avionics shop haven't been able to get the two to work together. I can get either ADS-B or TAS, but not both. Since ADS-B isn't going to be mandatory here for VFR aircraft, having TAS is important for me. Next step is to make the plane available "for about a week" with me doing the flying so that Garmin can try to debug it. It might have to wait until I retire to have that amount of spare time away from home base...
Still, most people seem to have managed to get it working, so I wouldn't hold off just because my installation has failed. I do like the ADS-B solution - it has made situational awareness much easier when you can match the calling on the radio with a picture on the MFD.
1. If there is a target on ADS-B only then it shows that target. You can see this with the different iconography and check it using an iPad running Garmin Pilot where it will show the tail number of the target, as well as altitude, speed, etc. in information.
2. If there is a target on TAS-6X0 only then it shows that target. Again, you can see the different iconography. These targets will have no tail number and less information on the iPad, for example, using Garmin Pilot app.
3. Where there are targets on both the ADS-B and the TAS then the system de-duplicates them with priority to the ADS-B.
You can occasionally see two targets shown where there is only one actual airplane when aliasing happens due to the antenna position relative to the target. I see this when targets approach from behind, for example, where a single merged ADS-B/TAS target will "split" into two.
This is all documented in the installation manuals for the GTX-345. For other airplanes you can have multiple traffic systems, etc. The configuration happens in the GTX-345, not the G1000, so this is all really quite independent of anything relating to the Diamonds themselves or the G1000.
- gordsh
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:40 pm
- First Name: Shawn
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: CCCCC
- Airports:
- Has thanked: 90 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Guidance for ADS-B Decision
I have the setup that Chris, Rick and CFIDave mentioned above, except that my plane did not originally have Avidyne Traffic and so I added the TAS610 (not the TAS600) as a part of the install with the GTX345R.