Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- ememic99
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
- First Name: Emir
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
- Airports: LDZA LDVA
- Has thanked: 205 times
- Been thanked: 393 times
Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Once GDU 15 is released, DA42 TDI owners will come to final state of their avionics:
- legacy G1000
- non-WAAS (GIA63) or WAAS (GIA63W)
- KAP140 or GFC700
No further upgrades of hardware or software will be possible beyond what's listed above. Except if you go for AE300 and then possibly apply for NXi upgrade but that's over $500.000 just for AE300 plus GFC700 (for NXi probably another $100.000 on top of it) and I'm not sure how many owners are ready for such investment.
Those who already have GFC700 will still own pretty modern platform with legacy G1000 but will miss future development and features that will be released for NXi. Those who have KAP140 will either stay with it or go for GFC700 and that's it because Garmin will never certify GFC500/600 for aircrafts with G1000.
I decided to investigate a little bit other possibilities. Few times Dynon was mentioned in different conversation (I believe also in one of the threads in this forum) but I got pretty convincing explanation from two highly experienced avionics guys that that will never be an option for DA42. However, G500 looks much more promising and I dug a bit deeper to check whether it would be possible to build new panel for DA42 around it.
DA42 is on FAA G500 AML (STC SA02015SE-D and SA02153LA-D) but unfortunately it's not on G500 TXi AML (SA02153LA-D) - only DA40 is on it. However, initial feedback, that I have, is that it shouldn't be a big problem to add it, especially because non-TXi version is out of production. All these documents are accepted by EASA as well.
Since my mechanic upgraded several DA40 to G500 TXi and several C172 to G500 TXi and GFC500 (including engine conversion to CD-155), I asked him about technical feasibility of such installation and expected pricing. The answer was positive and he estimated price in range of $150.000. That's based on 2xG500TXi, GTN750Xi, GTN650Xi and GFC600. However, the problem is missing GFC600 certification for DA42 TDI - as I mentioned above Garmin won't certify it because of commitment not to certify standalone autopilots for G1000 aircrafts. However, with removing G1000 and replacing it with G500 TXi, this obstacle is removed and the certification could be obtained. He'll check with Garmin if there's will on their side to support this idea.
As you can guess, crucial thing to get Garmin on board is showing market potential which won't be easy since it's not easy to pass such info to owners, let alone getting support or financial commitment. However, I hope I'll get some traction since more than 400 DA42 TDI aircrafts are in the same situation facing choice of switching to AE300 or continuing to operate on old avionics. It's shame that such a good platform is left in dead-end. If we estimate that hull is expected to be OK for at least 30 years and legacy G1000 for next 5-10 years, it's easy to see that avionics won't be serviceable long before hull be written off. If alternative path is not developed until then, the only choice will be either to go AE300 or to scrap the aircraft. I'm afraid that the later will be the choice of many because there won't be justification for such expensive step - you'll surely be able to buy another used aircraft for such money.
I'll keep posting further feedbacks on this "project" as I'm getting them.
- legacy G1000
- non-WAAS (GIA63) or WAAS (GIA63W)
- KAP140 or GFC700
No further upgrades of hardware or software will be possible beyond what's listed above. Except if you go for AE300 and then possibly apply for NXi upgrade but that's over $500.000 just for AE300 plus GFC700 (for NXi probably another $100.000 on top of it) and I'm not sure how many owners are ready for such investment.
Those who already have GFC700 will still own pretty modern platform with legacy G1000 but will miss future development and features that will be released for NXi. Those who have KAP140 will either stay with it or go for GFC700 and that's it because Garmin will never certify GFC500/600 for aircrafts with G1000.
I decided to investigate a little bit other possibilities. Few times Dynon was mentioned in different conversation (I believe also in one of the threads in this forum) but I got pretty convincing explanation from two highly experienced avionics guys that that will never be an option for DA42. However, G500 looks much more promising and I dug a bit deeper to check whether it would be possible to build new panel for DA42 around it.
DA42 is on FAA G500 AML (STC SA02015SE-D and SA02153LA-D) but unfortunately it's not on G500 TXi AML (SA02153LA-D) - only DA40 is on it. However, initial feedback, that I have, is that it shouldn't be a big problem to add it, especially because non-TXi version is out of production. All these documents are accepted by EASA as well.
Since my mechanic upgraded several DA40 to G500 TXi and several C172 to G500 TXi and GFC500 (including engine conversion to CD-155), I asked him about technical feasibility of such installation and expected pricing. The answer was positive and he estimated price in range of $150.000. That's based on 2xG500TXi, GTN750Xi, GTN650Xi and GFC600. However, the problem is missing GFC600 certification for DA42 TDI - as I mentioned above Garmin won't certify it because of commitment not to certify standalone autopilots for G1000 aircrafts. However, with removing G1000 and replacing it with G500 TXi, this obstacle is removed and the certification could be obtained. He'll check with Garmin if there's will on their side to support this idea.
As you can guess, crucial thing to get Garmin on board is showing market potential which won't be easy since it's not easy to pass such info to owners, let alone getting support or financial commitment. However, I hope I'll get some traction since more than 400 DA42 TDI aircrafts are in the same situation facing choice of switching to AE300 or continuing to operate on old avionics. It's shame that such a good platform is left in dead-end. If we estimate that hull is expected to be OK for at least 30 years and legacy G1000 for next 5-10 years, it's easy to see that avionics won't be serviceable long before hull be written off. If alternative path is not developed until then, the only choice will be either to go AE300 or to scrap the aircraft. I'm afraid that the later will be the choice of many because there won't be justification for such expensive step - you'll surely be able to buy another used aircraft for such money.
I'll keep posting further feedbacks on this "project" as I'm getting them.
- ememic99
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
- First Name: Emir
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
- Airports: LDZA LDVA
- Has thanked: 205 times
- Been thanked: 393 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
As a teaser, I'm adding pictures of few upgraded DA40 and C172 panels that were performed by my mechanic.
- midlifeflyer
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N226PA
- Airports: KTTA
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Just so I understand. Are those conversions of a DA40 G1000 or of an analog DA40?
- Chris
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:34 am
- First Name: Chris
- Aircraft Type: DA42NG
- Aircraft Registration: N449TS
- Airports: KHIO
- Has thanked: 1066 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Only the first photo is of a DA40D; the rest must be from a Cessna based on the yoke. The Diamond appears to be a 2004 model, so I'd assume that it was an analog panel before the conversion.midlifeflyer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:17 am Just so I understand. Are those conversions of a DA40 G1000 or of an analog DA40?
- ememic99
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
- First Name: Emir
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
- Airports: LDZA LDVA
- Has thanked: 205 times
- Been thanked: 393 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Yes, only one picture is DA40 (analog panel before conversion) the rest are C172. However, the guy did several DA40 panel conversions but C172 panels look better because of GFC500 (unfortunately still no STC for DA40) and dual G500 TXi. Here's another (more modest) PA28 panel conversion. Currently he's working on one Cirrus replacing Avidyne with Garmin package.Chris wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:31 amOnly the first photo is of a DA40D; the rest must be from a Cessna based on the yoke. The Diamond appears to be a 2004 model, so I'd assume that it was an analog panel before the conversion.midlifeflyer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:17 am Just so I understand. Are those conversions of a DA40 G1000 or of an analog DA40?
- midlifeflyer
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N226PA
- Airports: KTTA
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
Thanks guys. That's what I thought. Seems you ca do so much more with an analog Diamond than a G1000 one.
- ememic99
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
- First Name: Emir
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
- Airports: LDZA LDVA
- Has thanked: 205 times
- Been thanked: 393 times
Re: Alternative avionics for DA42 TDI
You can do the same. With G1000 equipped one you just have to pull out G1000 and keep what you can reuse (audio panel, DME, ADF...).midlifeflyer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:00 pm Thanks guys. That's what I thought. Seems you ca do so much more with an analog Diamond than a G1000 one.