SureFly Electronic Ignition
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- Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I looked at the log. Are you sure we’re looking at EGT 3? The log looks like EGT 2 is the problem. What am I missing?
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- mysands
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I wasn't sure why the EGT 2 dropped off there either, and that was towards the end of the flight... I was idle, high on final... Making sure I had the runway made. BTW my A&P took the power from the Solenoid (not sure if that makes a difference).
At 12:12, 13:02, 15:57 (those are the on the ground lean mag checks) and then the inflight mag checks at 28:05 and then 28:33. Thank you for looking at the logs.
In all honesty, I'm in healthcare and have little knowledge of engines... And learning...
At 12:12, 13:02, 15:57 (those are the on the ground lean mag checks) and then the inflight mag checks at 28:05 and then 28:33. Thank you for looking at the logs.
In all honesty, I'm in healthcare and have little knowledge of engines... And learning...
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- Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I’ve been reviewing the graphs and see some interesting things. But I just want to clarify that when the mechanic swapped #1/3 plugs it was the two lower plugs on the right side of the engine. Those are both fed from the Surefly. The upper ones are powered from the right mag.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I suggest a variation in the inflight test. Run for several seconds on the left (SIM), then both, then on the right mag. That's because #3 is showing signs of running leaner than the others, especially at low fuel flows and the problem may not be SF-related.
Did you run any tests like this before the SF installation?
Did you run any tests like this before the SF installation?
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- mysands
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I noted that #3 was running leaner too and didn’t know what to make of it. I’ll try as you suggested and report back. I subscribe to Savvy MX and they were pretty stumped too and I am thankful for this lead.
And yes, I routinely run the Lean’d Mag checks on ground and inflight.
And yes, I routinely run the Lean’d Mag checks on ground and inflight.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
I zoomed in on the interesting part of the graph so I could better see what was going on.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
Incidentally, since installing the SF I can no longer reach EGTs on any cylinder much above 1500 deg. Normal ROP flight with the same fuel flows as before my EGTs are 60-80 deg lower than they used to be. Dip switch settings are OFF-ON-OFF-OFF (-.-- flashing).
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- mysands
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
Here's a link to another flight test from 9/29. https://apps.savvyaviation.com/flights/ ... 2e1cd62e0e
A few snippets of interest.
Ground run ups.
Inflight mag check 10 deg lean of peak. Another inflight mag check peak EGT. At peak EGT on my leanest cylinder #3 the EGT is stable.
My A&P wonders if I am leaning too much. I don't think so, since, I'm barely going 10 deg lean of peak and the EGT3 is dropping. I couldn't climb higher than 4500 due to ceiling that day.
A few snippets of interest.
Ground run ups.
Inflight mag check 10 deg lean of peak. Another inflight mag check peak EGT. At peak EGT on my leanest cylinder #3 the EGT is stable.
My A&P wonders if I am leaning too much. I don't think so, since, I'm barely going 10 deg lean of peak and the EGT3 is dropping. I couldn't climb higher than 4500 due to ceiling that day.
- MarkA
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
The expected behavior of the SureFly ignition with the variable ignition advance enabled in cruise is that more fuel will be burnt in the cylinders during the ignition cycle and less out the exhaust when compared to the standard SLICK mags which don’t advance the ignition. The net effect is an overall increased fuel efficiency – more power will be extracted per gallon burnt.
Because the fuel is being burnt in the cylinders rather than out the exhaust ports, you’d expect higher CHTs and lower EGTs with the SureFly when compared with the standard SLICK mags. This is of course assuming the fuel flow, manifold pressure, and RPM all kept the same when the two are compared. Most people are also seeing that the SureFly allow them to lean their engines to a lower fuel flow before engine gets rough than was possible with the SLICK mags. I think that’s pretty much what you are seeing.
Am I missing something?
Because the fuel is being burnt in the cylinders rather than out the exhaust ports, you’d expect higher CHTs and lower EGTs with the SureFly when compared with the standard SLICK mags. This is of course assuming the fuel flow, manifold pressure, and RPM all kept the same when the two are compared. Most people are also seeing that the SureFly allow them to lean their engines to a lower fuel flow before engine gets rough than was possible with the SLICK mags. I think that’s pretty much what you are seeing.
Am I missing something?
Last edited by MarkA on Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
2010 DA40 XLS, N123MZ, KHIO
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
- MarkA
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition
The other observation from Mike Busch’s articles is that as long as you’re operating outside the “red fin” area, you can lean as much as you want without stressing the engine so it is really not possible to lean too much.
As you go leaner of peak, you’ll see a drop in both CHTs and EGTs and a reduction in power output. Leaning to just above where the engine starts running rough will give you the minimum gallons per hour (longest fuel duration) for the selected manifold pressure and RPM. Enriching the mixture while lean of peak to the point all the CHTs are still all below a reasonable level (I target 380) gives you more power and closer to best economy.
Mike talks about leaning to “go for long duration” (lean of peak just above engine roughness), leaning for “best economy” (enrichen while lean of peak to maintain the max CHT below a target threshold) or leaning to “go fast” (run rich of peak outside the “red fin” area where the CHTs are just below a target threshold).
I found the two youtube Mike Busch videos below on leaning to be very useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VfiPuheeGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-tKyiUZ3ts
As you go leaner of peak, you’ll see a drop in both CHTs and EGTs and a reduction in power output. Leaning to just above where the engine starts running rough will give you the minimum gallons per hour (longest fuel duration) for the selected manifold pressure and RPM. Enriching the mixture while lean of peak to the point all the CHTs are still all below a reasonable level (I target 380) gives you more power and closer to best economy.
Mike talks about leaning to “go for long duration” (lean of peak just above engine roughness), leaning for “best economy” (enrichen while lean of peak to maintain the max CHT below a target threshold) or leaning to “go fast” (run rich of peak outside the “red fin” area where the CHTs are just below a target threshold).
I found the two youtube Mike Busch videos below on leaning to be very useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VfiPuheeGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-tKyiUZ3ts
2010 DA40 XLS, N123MZ, KHIO
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg