Accelerated IFR training in DA40 - recommendations?

[jbz]

Hi all. As my profile indicates, I am furiously pursuing a Diamond of my Very Own(™). While I'm not 100% positive I'll make it, I absolutely do want to be prepared to use it effectively and safely (or any I rent in future). With that in mind, I need to get my IR. Given my current life schedules and where I live (NYC, cough) I feel that starting with accelerated IR training is my best option, so that I can 'lifetime learn' after that. Does anyone have any recommendations for an accelerated IFR program that uses Diamonds (ideally DA40s but 40NG/42/62 would be acceptable, why not get a ME too/first...!) somewhere in the USA? There are numerous advertised, but I searched this board without finding a solid 'recommendation/review' for a program anywhere. Thank you in advance!

[mhoran]

I would recommend checking out Take Flight at Orange County Airport in Montgomery, NY. While I have not taken lessons there, I do have them perform routine maintenance on my plane, and I have flown with their chief pilot, which was a positive experience.

[jbz]

Thanks. I know Take Flight and have taken a lesson with them. I am really looking for somewhere that specializes in intense, timeboxed accelerated training. While they talk about accelerated training on their website, when I discussed it with them it didn't really feel like a 'product offered 'but an 'option for regular training'. I really want a place that does this and has iterated on it often.

[alanhawse]

Hi all. As my profile indicates, I am furiously pursuing a Diamond of my Very Own(™). While I'm not 100% positive I'll make it, I absolutely do want to be prepared to use it effectively and safely (or any I rent in future). With that in mind, I need to get my IR. Given my current life schedules and where I live (NYC, cough) I feel that starting with accelerated IR training is my best option, so that I can 'lifetime learn' after that. Does anyone have any recommendations for an accelerated IFR program that uses Diamonds (ideally DA40s but 40NG/42/62 would be acceptable, why not get a ME too/first...!) somewhere in the USA? There are numerous advertised, but I searched this board without finding a solid 'recommendation/review' for a program anywhere. Thank you in advance!

Im not sure that this is a good idea. Maybe? I have 0 experience with the accelerated learning programs... but what I know for sure is learning instrument flying the certificate is incidental to really being a safe instrument pilot.

In my specific case I finished my private on Saturday 10/2/21 with 79.8 hours.
I started Instrument training on Monday 10/4/21
Then I flew 61 times between there and 3/14/22 (157 days)
Basically didnt look outside the window above 200agl for nearly 6 months.
At my instrument checkride I had 189 hours.... and 80 hours of instrument time
There was about 20 hours in my new plane which didnt count on the instrument time...
Maybe Im a slow learner?

I have really worked hard on my instrument flying... I think that to be good at it, the process will take some time.

Personally I think don't rush... do it right.

Alan

[jbz]

Thanks for your words of caution. I am a PPL with approx 240 hrs but infrequent time over some years, partly because trying to fly consistently and frequently enough to train from the middle of NY City has proven near impossible. I am looking for focused training to see if I can get my IR by traveling somewhere purely to focus on training. I have some experience (approx 50 hrs) planning and flying long cross country in unfamiliar places and would like to try structured training for this.

[mhoran]

There are many of us based in the NYC area. It can be a challenge, but I try to get out every other week at least. I'm based in Brooklyn, as is my partner. We keep the plane at Linden, which is most convenient for us to get to from our respective homes. I know there is another owner at Caldwell who perhaps might be looking for a partner. That may be an option worth pursuing.

I did my instrument over the course of three months. I flew every weekend. My instructor is based in South Jersey, so I'd fly down to meet him, we'd go do some maneuvers, and later, we would go on long cross country flights for lunch or whatever. I already had my PPL for years at that point, so I was very comfortable with the plane.

While I see the appeal of the accelerated programs, and understand your predicament, I do want to add the perspective of someone who has been in your situation as a city dweller. it can be a challenge, but it can also work out if you just have access to a plane and can get out and fly regularly. Owning the plane was the forcing function there for my partner and I. If I didn't own, I wouldn't feel so compelled to get out there. But now, when I don't fly I'm wasting money -- so I fly as much as I can!

[Boatguy]

I did a combination of "slow" IR training, and accelerated. It was a painful process and the IR was very challenging. In your PPL they constantly want you looking outside, then in the IR they constantly want you looking inside! DPE's were (and I think still are) difficult to book in northern California so the big attraction of an accelerated program was that they have an arrangement with a DPE and you'll get your check ride immediately. I flew my plane to KS to finish off my IR just so I could get a checkride. A couple of suggestions:

- The ACS allows for 20hrs of dual in a simulator. The simulator has a "pause" button, while the plane does not. Do this first. It is enormously more effective, a better use of CFII time, and much less expensive than flying around in your airplane.

- Thoroughly know your avionics (aka FMS). Words you never want to say, or hear from your CFII, during your training: "I think we push this button" or "why is it doing that". Find a simulator with a G1000 panel and use it until you always know what button to push and what will happen. Use a CFII who knows the G1000 thoroughly. Don't pay to train your CFII. CSIPs are trained on avionics and a CSIP will know the G1000.

The airplane inflight is a really poor time and place to learn how to operate the panel. If you're on an airway, and ATC gives you a vector, then 5min later tells you to "rejoin the airway", you don't want to have to think about how to do that. The avionics can either significantly reduce your workload, or they can increase it and distract you.

- Several of Max Trescott's recent Aviation Newstalk podcasts dissect accidents which he attributed to the instrument rated pilot not knowing how to operate the avionics. These are fatal accidents. Look back in those podcasts and you'll also find an interview with a DPE on how to prepare and take your checkride. There are also some good YouTube videos by DPEs.

- Once you get your IR, file and fly IFR for every flight for the first six months. Be really comfortable "in the system". You'll find it makes flying in complex or busy airspace so much easier.

- The training tends to focus on approaches and landings, but you also need to know how to takeoff. Be sure you know how and when to use SIDs and ODPs and how to load them in the panel before you takeoff.

I think Jacob's words of caution are merited. Flying in IMC is a lot different than flying under the hood. I think the optimal approach would be an accelerated program to get your rating, then commit to 15hrs of flying with a CFII in IMC in the first six months.

[mhoran]

I ran into a similar issue with DPE scheduling. I got a discontinuance after the oral due to deteriorating weather conditions. It took quite a while (a month or two?) to get rescheduled. I was within mere days of my instructor signoff expiring when I passed -- and thankfully I did, as the weather dropped to IFR just after I passed my checkride!

As Russ recommends, I also file and fly IFR for (nearly) all my cross country flights. When I crossed the US earlier this year, except for over the Rockies and across the desert I was IFR. That trip was a real exercise in digging out dusty knowledge from my IR training. Flying on the East coast is very different than on the West, and I had to use lost comms and negative radar procedures, which I hadn't practiced since training.

Since earning my instrument ticket, I file and fly IFR in VMC often, and get in regular approaches in the airplane. I also have access to a sim in the city that I use regularly (Manhattan Flight Club). We're also trying to get the IMC Club rebooted, which is a great opportunity to talk about various scenarios and practice that chair flying that might otherwise get dusty (like before my XC trip!)

[PNWIan]

I used AFIT (sounds like CFIT I know...) in Auburn California last February. I brought my own plane but Mike Poteet has access to another DA40 that some people train in. Mike was a great pilot, a talented teacher and he knew the DA40 well -- it was one of the most fun things I did all year.

One complication with the 10-day program is you can't miss very much time due to weather and still make your DPE appointment. I found myself wishing I could have paid in advance for multiple concurrent DPE dates, since rescheduling was a hassle (and a long wait...)

[mysands]

I received my IFR rating a few months ago and took the traditional route of weekend flying for a year and a half, ~60 hrs + 20 I had from before. It was one of the most challenging things I have done. I read multiple sources, including the FAR/AIM, Gleim IFR books, King videos, and every other source of information I could get my hands on, including IFR magazine, Max Trescott’s G1000 book, etc. I am humbled every IFR flight of how little I know and planned for despite how well I did in my written and check-ride. A perfect example is the latest opposing bases podcast episode where they talk about on departure “expect xxx altitude 10 min after,” so much I hadn't considered in that just one episode. As RH and AG would say, “must listen to every episode, must listen to every episode”. I only have around 400 hours total and agree with everything some very experienced members have stated above.