DA50 vs The World

[VickersPilot]

The primary design flaw in the Cirrus is the landing gear. The most common accident type is the application of power during a botched landing resulting in a left of runway excursion. It’s statistically significant. The trailing link gear is a big safety advantage in favor of the Diamond.

[mfdutra]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Cirrus in the hands of a competent pilot. I had one for 4+ years, flying all over the place, and it was just fine. However, it has a laminar short wing, a bouncy gear and a punchy motor (22, 22T). That requires respect and good training.

This is like giving a 16yo a fast sports car. Not a good combination. That's exactly what's happening with Cirrus. They sell more than one airplane a day, and a lot of those are going to people that have very low experience flying. To add insult to injury, many of those people are completely dependent on automation.

If the airplane is matched with the right pilot, it's a great travel machine. I still prefer my DA62 though.

[Shoeman]

I moved from a SR22TN to the DA50 and have not regretted it. I feel safer and allow my son to fly it because the DA50 is so difficult to upset. When practicing stalls and recovery from unusual attitudes you really have to wrestle it to do anything but keep flying. Range is an issue only on about 1% of flights and during those my bladder gives up before my fuel reserves. I am planning to fly UK to South Africa and it can be done on the standard tanks but will install a Turtle Pac on the back seat for an added safety margin. My wife also prefers the extra space and the extra stability of the DA50 as she is a nervous slightly claustrophobic flyer. The availability and price of Jet A1 around the world is a game changer even round some European countries.
Over time i am sure the safety record of the DA50 will far exceed the Cirrus where nearly 1 in 50 of all airframes have been in a fatal accident (158 from 8,000) last time i looked .

[michael.g.miller]

I am planning to fly UK to South Africa and it can be done on the standard tanks but will install a Turtle Pac on the back seat for an added safety margin.

What route are you taking? Since Sudan… closed… my understanding is that it is now more difficult. I saw DAI routed through Ethiopia, is that what you’re doing as well?

[alanhawse]

I moved from a SR22TN to the DA50 and have not regretted it. I feel safer and allow my son to fly it because the DA50 is so difficult to upset. When practicing stalls and recovery from unusual attitudes you really have to wrestle it to do anything but keep flying. Range is an issue only on about 1% of flights and during those my bladder gives up before my fuel reserves. I am planning to fly UK to South Africa and it can be done on the standard tanks but will install a Turtle Pac on the back seat for an added safety margin. My wife also prefers the extra space and the extra stability of the DA50 as she is a nervous slightly claustrophobic flyer. The availability and price of Jet A1 around the world is a game changer even round some European countries.
Over time i am sure the safety record of the DA50 will far exceed the Cirrus where nearly 1 in 50 of all airframes have been in a fatal accident (158 from 8,000) last time i looked .

This is pretty close to the same reasons that I bought the DA50 as well.

I have been flying a few different Cirrus SRs the last couple of weeks... and I am starting to like them. But not enough to regret my 50 decision.

My only real concerns is the unknowns of a new engine and airframe. Im sure that the world (and us) have some learning curve to work though and there will be annoyances.

[TimS]

@alanhawse

The data shows exactly opposite what you are arguing on Cirrus.
When you compare Cirrus SR22 accident and fatal rates against equivalent planes, e.g. DA-42, Bonanza... You will find that Cirrus is has lower rates or is extremely close to the point it is a statistical tie.
The DA-40-180 is still the safest GA plane, and beats the SR20 by a large margin.

Roughly a decade ago, Rick Beach and a few others started to dig into the Cirrus accident data. The accidents were a chute was not pulled were predominately by higher time pilots. The training by COPA does not cover the concept that you have to pull, it covers the ADM to decide if you should pull. e.g. on takeoff you lose an engine, do you try the "impossible turn" or pull the chute?

The reality, pulling a chute and not depending on pilot skill to recover from a bad situation is significantly safer.

In terms of bad ADM, I assume you never wear seat belts since they encourage such risky behavior? And you have also removed all air bags?

Note: I am a COPA member, and former Cirrus owner (both an SR20 and SR22).

Tim

[ememic99]

Note: I am a COPA member, and former Cirrus owner (both an SR20 and SR22).

Out of curiosity, do you still own N1446C?

[alanhawse]

The data shows exactly opposite what you are arguing on Cirrus.

I see a bunch of people blabbing about data.... I am not sure that I have seen much in the way of anything that looked like a reputable analysis. But Im sure that given this is the internet there is such a thing.

But more seriously, I suppose that I was saying that the benign handling characteristics of the DA40 made me think that the DA50 would end up being a docile plane. This idea was affirmed by my flight of 150RG. And I suppose time will tell.

In terms of bad ADM, I assume you never wear seat belts since they encourage such risky behavior? And you have also removed all air bags?

I have been doing the Cirrus approach transition program and certainly they believe that the CAPS is magical. I am starting to like the SR22/SR20 and I think that CAPS is integral to their safety program. But as I have said before CAPS... EMACS/VI, Ford/Chevy, Rep/Dem, .... long list of things that people blab about.

Really I was just responding Showman's comments which I liked... and not my original list which included CAPS.

Alan

[Shoeman]

I am planning to fly UK to South Africa and it can be done on the standard tanks but will install a Turtle Pac on the back seat for an added safety margin.

What route are you taking? Since Sudan… closed… my understanding is that it is now more difficult. I saw DAI routed through Ethiopia, is that what you’re doing as well?

Ethiopia is the current route but subject to change given political situations. I have had good reports on both GASE in Egypt and White Rose in the UK for the flight planning and am hoping to do it November this year.

[michael.g.miller]

Ethiopia is the current route but subject to change given political situations. I have had good reports on both GASE in Egypt and White Rose in the UK for the flight planning and am hoping to do it November this year.

What stops are you thinking to get through Egypt -> Saudi Arabia -> Ethiopia -> Kenya? Did you get quotes on handling fees? Curious how the route has changed.